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  1. #461

    A Recap

    woah.... finally got to the last post!

    I can understand why people want to be lazy and not read such a long thread end to end, but for a project like this, it becomes critical when there are so many variations of methods and proportioning being tried.
    For instance, way back there is a link to an article which makes known the 3:1 ratio for mineral spirits and gives the reason why, and stressed the importance of correct measure. Later, a post was made referencing the use of naptha which used the ratio 5:1. Since then everyone following has been using every mixture in between, some even eyeballing it, probably because they missed that post from not reading...reading is fundamental....

    so for the benefit of others after this post here is what I've gleaned so far just from reading:

    USE Personal Protection Equipment! Mineral spirits and other chemicals will destroy those cheap disposable gloves, exposing your skin to absorbtion. I have those big thick green gloves that go to the elbow, not sure where to get them because I got mine from work and haven't had to replace them yet. I also prefer a full face shield over goggles, it has better visibility and I don't feel so claustrophobic. Damage to your eyes is forever and so is exposure to some chemicals, always read the MSDS sheets. (I was doing preventative maintenance on a processor one day and a pressman comes in and dips his bare finger into the developer asking "this isn't corrosive is it?" "um yeah... it's corrosive 8... the highest the scale goes, go wash your hands in soap and COLD, COLD, water." Mind you, I'm wearing a chemical resistent apron, full face shield, and elbow length chemical gloves)

    Mix: 3 parts mineral spirits to 1 part exterior silicone or bath and shower (do not use waterbased interior/exterior or painters because it will dissolve in water after it cures) NOTE: air bubbles from mixing and application are the enemy!

    Soaking the fabric seems to ensure better penetration into the fabric so long as you work the fabric enough to remove air bubbles
    brushing or sponging using a back-brushing technique (paint 3 rows at a time, each time starting one row below your previous first row to ensure overlapping coverage) can also be adequate but there's a greater chance of missed spots and introducing air bubbles. just like when painting, always try to stay ahead of the drying, maintaining a "wet edge" and don't overwork the sil during application (going back over it after it's begun to dry) or it won't bond properly.
    set up your project as you would if you were using it for sil application and drying. This will ensure that the stresses of real-life use are actively in place and all threads are exposed that would normally be during use. High-stress points are along the ridge-line and at any tie-outs. If you apply the sil and then stress it you'll be opening up voids that were not there when you soaked it.
    Pre-treat any reinforcement fabric that will add an extra layer to ensure that it gets penetrated on both sides.
    from the look of things I'd say the best practice would be to soak it first, then hang it as for use, then brush over it again while it's still wet, paying strict attention to the stress points.

    Squeegee: I could be wrong but I doubt a squeegee would really be very effective for this. screen printing inks are very thick and has to be forced through the threads in comparison to this dilution of sil and I saw many posts where people said they had no problem sponging it on.

    rollers: I used to work in prepress dept for RR Donnelley and the processors we used for film and printing plates pushed the sheet beneath a spraybar, through a chemical bath, squeegeed it off on the other side, rinsed under another spray bar, followed by a heated blower that dried it. the difference is that film and printing plates are fairly rigid compared to fabric, so to make this work you'd have to come up with a way to splice on a sheet aluminum leader to your fabric. the other issue is that it's only 3 feet wide which is definitely not going to accomodate a full tarp. I'm not sure how many printing companies are still using film these days, so if you watch for when they go out of business you might be able to pick up a Kodak Polychrome film or plate processor for pretty cheap. Likewise for vacuum tables and parts for them such as the pumps. When my local plant closed I came home with a vacuum pump, desk, and a light-table for a total cost of $15.

    I haven't personally tried any of this stuff I've been reading yet, in fact I've only just joined, having found my way here via a youtube video from one of you about making a hammock. I've been camping and hiking my whole life, but only with my North Face Cumulus tent which is wearing out and heavy, and never for any extended trips, only ever day hikes and canoe camping where you find a site and explore the surrounding area. For the last year though I've been cycling in preparation for some cross-country trips I want to do, and I've been commuting to work by bicycle for the last 7 months. I'm looking to reduce my pack weight in essentials so and so I thought maybe a hammock or a bivy, and from what I've seen on here, I'm swaying heavily towards the hammock.

  2. #462

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    Thanks for the easy-to-follow recap! Subscribed so I can find this again when I want to try my own sil-nylon...

  3. #463
    New Member Maguwa's Avatar
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    Talking DIY Sil Nylon with paint thinner and silicone

    Finely finished my DIY tarp I made from some very thin material, (most likely polyester). I couldn't track down any mineral spirits, as it is quite hard to find here in Tokyo... Instead I used a 3:1 mix of paint thinner (900ml) and silicone(300ml). The paint thinner is really stinky stuff and I was worried that the tarp would have a strong lingering smell. I'm happy to say that is does not after one full day of hanging in nasty humid Tokyo weather.
    The mix set up quite fast, I didn't have as much time as I would have liked to smooth things out with a sponge.
    For application, I just mixed the goo in a thick plastic bag then stuffed the whole thing in, kneading like bread to make sure I got full coverage.
    I squeezed out as much of the goo as I could, then hung it tight and quickly went to work wiping it with a sponge.
    I haven't weight it yet, but it is definitely heavier than before.
    I'll try it out soon in the rain, but it seems like it is going to work just fine.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #464
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    Awesome thread, this could provide for a much sought after camoflauge silnylon!

  5. #465
    Knotty's Avatar
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    make your own sil.

    Quote Originally Posted by natefoo View Post
    Awesome thread, this could provide for a much sought after camoflauge silnylon!
    That was my motivation for doing it.
    Knotty
    "Don't speak unless it improves the silence." -proverb
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  6. #466
    Senior Member TOB9595's Avatar
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    WONDERFUL SYNOPSIS!!!
    Lot of effort and time.
    Thank you
    Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by WalksIn2Trees View Post
    woah.... finally got to the last post!

    I can understand why people want to be lazy and not read such a long thread end to end, but for a project like this, it becomes critical when there are so many variations of methods and proportioning being tried.
    For instance, way back there is a link to an article which makes known the 3:1 ratio for mineral spirits and gives the reason why, and stressed the importance of correct measure. Later, a post was made referencing the use of naptha which used the ratio 5:1. Since then everyone following has been using every mixture in between, some even eyeballing it, probably because they missed that post from not reading...reading is fundamental....

    so for the benefit of others after this post here is what I've gleaned so far just from reading:

    USE Personal Protection Equipment! Mineral spirits and other chemicals will destroy those cheap disposable gloves, exposing your skin to absorbtion. I have those big thick green gloves that go to the elbow, not sure where to get them because I got mine from work and haven't had to replace them yet. I also prefer a full face shield over goggles, it has better visibility and I don't feel so claustrophobic. Damage to your eyes is forever and so is exposure to some chemicals, always read the MSDS sheets. (I was doing preventative maintenance on a processor one day and a pressman comes in and dips his bare finger into the developer asking "this isn't corrosive is it?" "um yeah... it's corrosive 8... the highest the scale goes, go wash your hands in soap and COLD, COLD, water." Mind you, I'm wearing a chemical resistent apron, full face shield, and elbow length chemical gloves)

    Mix: 3 parts mineral spirits to 1 part exterior silicone or bath and shower (do not use waterbased interior/exterior or painters because it will dissolve in water after it cures) NOTE: air bubbles from mixing and application are the enemy!

    Soaking the fabric seems to ensure better penetration into the fabric so long as you work the fabric enough to remove air bubbles
    brushing or sponging using a back-brushing technique (paint 3 rows at a time, each time starting one row below your previous first row to ensure overlapping coverage) can also be adequate but there's a greater chance of missed spots and introducing air bubbles. just like when painting, always try to stay ahead of the drying, maintaining a "wet edge" and don't overwork the sil during application (going back over it after it's begun to dry) or it won't bond properly.
    set up your project as you would if you were using it for sil application and drying. This will ensure that the stresses of real-life use are actively in place and all threads are exposed that would normally be during use. High-stress points are along the ridge-line and at any tie-outs. If you apply the sil and then stress it you'll be opening up voids that were not there when you soaked it.
    Pre-treat any reinforcement fabric that will add an extra layer to ensure that it gets penetrated on both sides.
    from the look of things I'd say the best practice would be to soak it first, then hang it as for use, then brush over it again while it's still wet, paying strict attention to the stress points.

    Squeegee: I could be wrong but I doubt a squeegee would really be very effective for this. screen printing inks are very thick and has to be forced through the threads in comparison to this dilution of sil and I saw many posts where people said they had no problem sponging it on.

    rollers: I used to work in prepress dept for RR Donnelley and the processors we used for film and printing plates pushed the sheet beneath a spraybar, through a chemical bath, squeegeed it off on the other side, rinsed under another spray bar, followed by a heated blower that dried it. the difference is that film and printing plates are fairly rigid compared to fabric, so to make this work you'd have to come up with a way to splice on a sheet aluminum leader to your fabric. the other issue is that it's only 3 feet wide which is definitely not going to accomodate a full tarp. I'm not sure how many printing companies are still using film these days, so if you watch for when they go out of business you might be able to pick up a Kodak Polychrome film or plate processor for pretty cheap. Likewise for vacuum tables and parts for them such as the pumps. When my local plant closed I came home with a vacuum pump, desk, and a light-table for a total cost of $15.

    I haven't personally tried any of this stuff I've been reading yet, in fact I've only just joined, having found my way here via a youtube video from one of you about making a hammock. I've been camping and hiking my whole life, but only with my North Face Cumulus tent which is wearing out and heavy, and never for any extended trips, only ever day hikes and canoe camping where you find a site and explore the surrounding area. For the last year though I've been cycling in preparation for some cross-country trips I want to do, and I've been commuting to work by bicycle for the last 7 months. I'm looking to reduce my pack weight in essentials so and so I thought maybe a hammock or a bivy, and from what I've seen on here, I'm swaying heavily towards the hammock.

  7. #467
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    How long did you allow the mixture to soak in? Was it just a matter of kneading it for a bit and then it was good to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maguwa View Post
    Finely finished my DIY tarp I made from some very thin material, (most likely polyester). I couldn't track down any mineral spirits, as it is quite hard to find here in Tokyo... Instead I used a 3:1 mix of paint thinner (900ml) and silicone(300ml). The paint thinner is really stinky stuff and I was worried that the tarp would have a strong lingering smell. I'm happy to say that is does not after one full day of hanging in nasty humid Tokyo weather.
    The mix set up quite fast, I didn't have as much time as I would have liked to smooth things out with a sponge.
    For application, I just mixed the goo in a thick plastic bag then stuffed the whole thing in, kneading like bread to make sure I got full coverage.
    I squeezed out as much of the goo as I could, then hung it tight and quickly went to work wiping it with a sponge.
    I haven't weight it yet, but it is definitely heavier than before.
    I'll try it out soon in the rain, but it seems like it is going to work just fine.

  8. #468
    Knotty's Avatar
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    make your own sil.

    Time isn't important. The most important thing is making sure the mixture gets squeezed into all of the fabric.

    If you just bunch up the tarp in the mixture and knead it, the entire tarp will get wet but only the outer parts will get enough sil. The layers of fabric that make up the bunch filter out the sil and prevent it from getting deep into the bunch.

    Put the tarp in the mixture and knead it. Then pull it out, rearrange the fabric and repeat. And repeat. And repeat...
    Knotty
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  9. #469
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    There is a video on You Tube of this procedure. I believe the mix was 2 qts. min. spirits to a tube of silicone. He fastened 3 nylon ties to the bottom of a shaft attached to an electric drill for the mixing.
    Check it out

  10. #470
    New Member New2trees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maguwa View Post
    Finely finished my DIY tarp I made from some very thin material, (most likely polyester). I couldn't track down any mineral spirits, as it is quite hard to find here in Tokyo... Instead I used a 3:1 mix of paint thinner (900ml) and silicone(300ml). The paint thinner is really stinky stuff and I was worried that the tarp would have a strong lingering smell. I'm happy to say that is does not after one full day of hanging in nasty humid Tokyo weather.
    The mix set up quite fast, I didn't have as much time as I would have liked to smooth things out with a sponge.
    For application, I just mixed the goo in a thick plastic bag then stuffed the whole thing in, kneading like bread to make sure I got full coverage.
    I squeezed out as much of the goo as I could, then hung it tight and quickly went to work wiping it with a sponge.
    I haven't weight it yet, but it is definitely heavier than before.
    I'll try it out soon in the rain, but it seems like it is going to work just fine.
    Looks Very good for a DIY tarp

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