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  1. #411
    Senior Member Shnick's Avatar
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    Heat radiance avoidance

    Hey guys quick question, if it was covered in the previous 41 (yes 41) pages I apologize for not searching in depth for it.

    I'm planning on a DIY "warbonnett with doors" style, I'd like to do it right the first time, not several versions. I'd like to get black 1.1 material and coat it with black silicone. However, doing so without guidance/advice would be a waste of money. A few questions present themselves, thought I'd get y'alls input.

    1. Has anyone coated with NON clear silicone with success?
    2. If so, was the mixing ratio 1:4 the same?
    3. Is this a stupid idea and should I drop it?

    Now that I'm thinking of it, if ones goal is provide shade and prevent unwanted radiant heat UNDER a tarp, could one use black caulk on the bottom side and grey/silver on top? Assuming the first coat (gray/silver) of silicone soaks into the fabric in it's entire thickness, is it possible to coat it with black on the bottom on application number 2 on the opposite side?

    The sun gets crazy brutal here in the sumer, just throwin' it out there...

    Ideas?

    Shnick
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  2. #412
    Senior Member egrant5329's Avatar
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    If you want to do it right the 1st time the I'd recommend buying the sil. It will be better quality, last longer and most likely weigh less.

    I made some and was successful, but it was considerably heavier than the sil you can buy. I don't know about the longevity yet.

    I believe someone with manufacturing experience said that the factory silicone is applied with high pressure using a catalyst.

    Good luck!
    Ed
    Ed

  3. #413
    Badchef's Avatar
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    Attempted DIY Sil this weekend. Unfortunately the nylon from WM was not as advertised (shocker ) and it did not absorb into the fabric at all.
    There are very few problems we can solve ourselves, but there is almost nothing we cannot solve together.

    Most often when someone says they can't, they are unwilling to try.

  4. #414
    Senior Member Shnick's Avatar
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    Copy that guys, thanks...
    I think for the price of a warbonnett I could go factory on this project...

    Shnick
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  5. #415
    Rain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnick View Post
    1. Has anyone coated with NON clear silicone with success?
    Not I, but would guess it'd be the same. However, the black dye/coloring would be so diluted and thin, I doubt anyone would know it was ever black to begin with.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shnick View Post
    2. If so, was the mixing ratio 1:4 the same?
    We have some pretty good chemists in the thread, so let's see if they speak up. But the mixing ratio simply isn't precise to begin with, so I doubt if the black coloring would mess up any "precision" anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shnick View Post
    3. Is this a stupid idea and should I drop it?

    Heck no ... experimenting is the nature of progress! Go for it! But practice on a small piece first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shnick View Post
    Now that I'm thinking of it, if ones goal is provide shade and prevent unwanted radiant heat UNDER a tarp, could one use black caulk on the bottom side and grey/silver on top? Assuming the first coat (gray/silver) of silicone soaks into the fabric in it's entire thickness, is it possible to coat it with black on the bottom on application number 2 on the opposite side?
    You keep speaking of "coating," but to my knowledge, the silicone never coats the nylon anyway. Rather is soaks in all the way through. Any excess "coating" should be wiped off before it dries. (Any excess (or, coating) that I have left on tends to just peel off once it dries.) Or at least that's my understanding and has been my practice.

    Lets see what others have to say.

    Rain Man

    .
    Last edited by Rain Man; 03-12-2012 at 08:59.
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  6. #416
    Senior Member DemostiX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badchef View Post
    . Unfortunately the nylon from WM was not as advertised (shocker ) and it did not absorb into the fabric at all.
    Would you explain? WM as in Western Mountaineering?

    And per posts from engineers with expertise in this thread:.

    With rare exceptions: This is not worth doing and should not be done for large quantities. The result is never superior to commercial products. You are dumping hydrocarbons into the air.

    I could see doing this for vanity reasons -- I wanted to match colors, or for small areas where my opinion of what is needed is different from the equipment designer's. Example of the latter: Clark builds hoods onto the ends of all their hammocks. I may disagree with Clark that air permeability is wanted for those hoods and want those hoods to be silicon-impregnated, so they are as waterproof as a tarp.

    Or, I want a (matching? contrasting color?) stuff sack to be waterproof.

    In both of those examples, the total weight penalty of DIY waterproofing is small because the quantity of fabric is small.

  7. #417
    Badchef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemostiX View Post
    Would you explain? WM as in Western Mountaineering?

    .
    My apologies for the bad acronym. Wal-M**t.

    I used the nylon from their discount rack as an attempt to do my own sil. The camo pattern did not accept any of the sil mixture.
    There are very few problems we can solve ourselves, but there is almost nothing we cannot solve together.

    Most often when someone says they can't, they are unwilling to try.

  8. #418
    Knotty's Avatar
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    Sounds like the fabric already had some type of coating which prevented the sil from adhering/penetrating.
    Knotty
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  9. #419
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    Chembrews comments about the rollers has me wondering if I know anyone with the old wringers used with the old hand wash washing stations. I know they have one at the car wash but I don't want to impose my sil treatment residue onto anyone chamios!

  10. #420
    Senior Member RamenShamen's Avatar
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    First, I have to say-- I absolutely love my WB Superfly!!! Second, has anyone come up with a standardized silicone/mineral spirits ratio?


    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    i decided to see if i could make my own sil nylon out of breathable 1.1.

    i decide to soak it on, thinking i could get a much more consistent coating than with a brush, and also thinking i could make it alot thinner and it might soak in to the interior fibers better making it more like impregnated than coated, and that maybe it wouldn't wear off like a coating might.

    i mixed mineral spirits and silicone to get something thin enough to soak the fabric in, soaked one, thinned further, soaked another, thinned again, soaked a third.

    i gave all three the shower head test, the first one, the thickest mix (#1) seemed the best, it was also apparent that any excess should have been wiped off before it dried, seems like it will not drip off unless it's too thin.

    the first test was done with 6" squares, so then i cut out an exact sq. yd, weighed it at 1.1/32g, i eyeballed a larger mix that looked like the first one, soaked, wrung out, and wiped both sides as dry as i could and let it dry over night.

    results are good, weighs exactly 1.3/38g, and seems to do about as well or at least close to sil on the shower head test, i'm thinking if it would have been a tarp, i would have set it up tight, to fully stretch it, then wipe it down, this may allow mix to penetrate deeper and better into the inside of the fabric better, worked suprisingly well the way i did it though.

    can't say about durability, did seem like i got most of the sil off the surface already though by wiping it down.

    don't know when i'll make a whole tarp, i just wondered about it awhile ago, and i happened to have the silicone out yesterday, sorry i don't have any exact mix ratios, i couldn't find anything to measure with but my kitchen stuff, so i just eyeballed it all. it was runny, but still had a little thickness left, and was pretty cloudy looking at an inch deep, but pretty clear at a half inch or so.(as i remember it)

    i know sil is hard to find in many colors, so this may be an option, especially if you want exact color matches.

    don't know about tear strength, sil has a higher tear strength than breathable 1.9, so i don't know about this stuff.

    i also don't know how factory impregnation is done or if this is similar or not, i just know impregnation is present on the interior of the fabric as this seems to be as well.

    maybe somebody has already tried this and knows more about long term use.

    Brandon
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