Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 49

Thread: cinch buckles

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    slowhike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Hammock
    DIY, gathered end , w/ spreader
    Tarp
    DIY w/ pull-outs
    Insulation
    DAM/ HG Incubator
    Suspension
    Webbing & rings
    Posts
    10,595
    Images
    319

    cinch buckles

    on another thread about knot basics, hogn8r made this statement..

    [quote=Hogn8r;32440].I once talked to a guy about using the gizzies on ropes and his thot was that it is better to use something like the figure 9 or double buckle because it has a higher breaking strength than a knot. This is a misconception because ANY turn, bend or loop in a rope, wether in a knot or on a friction device causes the same weakening. The loss of strength comes from the fibers being unequally burdened in the radius of the turn. IOW, fewer of the fibers are taking the load and this happens when you tie a knot or you a friction/clamp device that uses ANY bend,turn or pinch point in the rope.
    QUOTE]

    i'll use that thought to make mention of a concern w/ the clinch buckle i've expressed before.

    now don't get me wrong & get your feathers all ruffled because like i said before i like the clinch buckle & what i'm going to describe may not take very much away from the strength of the webbing, but it's just a thought that sticks in my mind when ever i think about the time i spent using the clinch buckle.

    i saw how using the clinch buckle every night in approximately the same spot on the webbing caused that section of webbing to become noticeably more soft than the rest, making it harder to push back through to loosen.
    it also showed signs of light fraying in that section too.

    the webbing's i used for the clinch buckle were the cheap wal-mart 1" pollyester webbing (which is'nt IMO a good representative of the better webbing's) & the 1" tubular nylon webbing from the climbing section at the local outfitters.

    both showed the softening i talked about above. the fraying was more on the wal-mart webbing.

    point is that there is a sharper bend & all the force is placed on a smaller point in the webbing when using the clinch buckle.

    it may never cause an actual failure as long as the webbing is of good quality, but just some thing to think about.

    with the double rings the webbing is traveling over a larger, round surface. of course the slip knot that is tied & untied each time may work on the integrity of the webbing too???
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Belleville, ON
    Posts
    664
    Images
    26
    I'd say that while its probably true that the buckles will eventually wear out the webbing, that may not happen in the life of the fabric in your hammock.

    Yes the rings probably are less hard on the webbing since they're designed to do basically what we use them for but with climbing rope. The larger the radius the less damage to the webbing or rope.

    Same is true with knots. The "back-up" slipknot is going to be less hard on the lines since its not usually under a lot of tension so it doesn't get tightened and "crimped" to as tight a radius as a knot that has been pulled tighter. Also because its tied around webbing (itself) the radius is going to be larger than if it was a fine rope.

    How much loss are we talking about? How cumulative is it? I don't think there's any way to know except empirically. I believe that's how the de-rating of knots in rope are arrived at.

  3. #3
    slowhike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Hammock
    DIY, gathered end , w/ spreader
    Tarp
    DIY w/ pull-outs
    Insulation
    DAM/ HG Incubator
    Suspension
    Webbing & rings
    Posts
    10,595
    Images
    319
    Quote Originally Posted by Rapt View Post
    How much loss are we talking about? How cumulative is it? I don't think there's any way to know except empirically. I believe that's how the de-rating of knots in rope are arrived at.
    like i said, in actual, nightly use i saw what i described above in those two types of webbing.
    i wasn't keeping records (or even very good mental notes) but i believe the softening & fraying became noticeable in a couple weeks or less.

    on the trail the difference in between trees & their diameter will put the wear in different locations on the webbing, but the in home test serves well to show how it could affect the webbing over time by putting the stress in the same general location.

    i guess i could put the clinch buckles back on my hammock & start w/ new webbing from speer since that's what i have.
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  4. #4
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    near Memphis, TN
    Hammock
    WB Traveler
    Tarp
    ZPacks CF
    Insulation
    Te-Wa / HG / WB
    Suspension
    Whoopie Hooks
    Posts
    9,686
    Images
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by slowhike View Post
    on the trail the difference in between trees & their diameter will put the wear in different locations on the webbing, but the in home test serves well to show how it could affect the webbing over time by putting the stress in the same general location.

    i guess i could put the clinch buckles back on my hammock & start w/ new webbing from speer since that's what i have.
    For 'home testing' where the lengths are always the same, I'm not sure I'd use webbing anyway. A better method would be to get some chain with a hook of some sort on the end and hook the rings or buckle to that instead of webbing. It doesn't need to be light if you aren't carrying it anywhere, and you can then save the webbing for trail use where the lengths vary.
    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

  5. #5
    slowhike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Hammock
    DIY, gathered end , w/ spreader
    Tarp
    DIY w/ pull-outs
    Insulation
    DAM/ HG Incubator
    Suspension
    Webbing & rings
    Posts
    10,595
    Images
    319
    true... i have used chain at times, but i like seeing how well the webbing does in exsagerated use... that is, constant wear & force in the same sections.
    i always have padding under me
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  6. #6
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Hammock
    WB Traveler
    Tarp
    Custom OES tarp
    Insulation
    JRB Down UQ/TQ
    Suspension
    Whoopie slings
    Posts
    9,041
    Images
    40
    Every once in a while when using the rings my slipknot would get sucked into the rings. Lots of crimping going on there... tough to extract and untie. (fwiw).


    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
    - Mark Twain
    I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order.
    - John Burroughs

  7. #7
    slowhike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Hammock
    DIY, gathered end , w/ spreader
    Tarp
    DIY w/ pull-outs
    Insulation
    DAM/ HG Incubator
    Suspension
    Webbing & rings
    Posts
    10,595
    Images
    319
    Quote Originally Posted by NCPatrick View Post
    Every once in a while when using the rings my slipknot would get sucked into the rings. Lots of crimping going on there... tough to extract and untie. (fwiw).
    i jerk the slip knot up tight against the rings & i've never had that happen???
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  8. #8
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    near Memphis, TN
    Hammock
    WB Traveler
    Tarp
    ZPacks CF
    Insulation
    Te-Wa / HG / WB
    Suspension
    Whoopie Hooks
    Posts
    9,686
    Images
    92
    I agree with the above comments. The buckles will wear on the webbing over time, but I don't think it is a big deal because of three things:

    1) In a trail use setting you are hanging from trees that are different distances apart. In doing so you adjust the buckles to different sections of the webbing for each hang and put less continual stress on one spot.

    2) The wear is quite visible. When it becomes enough that it concerns you, you have quite a number of hangs of 'warning time'. Certainly enough to make it somewhere that has available webbing. (ratcheting ties, etc)

    3) Webbing is very inexpensive and is readily available.
    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

  9. #9
    Senior Member FanaticFringer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lawrenceville, Ga
    Hammock
    JRB Bear Mtn. Bridge
    Tarp
    BlackCat/JRB 11x10
    Insulation
    Pad(s)/JRB Quilts
    Posts
    2,424
    Images
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by angrysparrow View Post
    I agree with the above comments. The buckles will wear on the webbing over time, but I don't think it is a big deal because of three things:

    1) In a trail use setting you are hanging from trees that are different distances apart. In doing so you adjust the buckles to different sections of the webbing for each hang and put less continual stress on one spot.

    2) The wear is quite visible. When it becomes enough that it concerns you, you have quite a number of hangs of 'warning time'. Certainly enough to make it somewhere that has available webbing. (ratcheting ties, etc)

    3) Webbing is very inexpensive and is readily available.
    And I agree with your comments. I love my "Cinch" buckles.
    There a cinch to use.
    "Every day above ground is a good day"

  10. #10
    Senior Member Cannibal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Hammock
    Warbonnet ON!
    Tarp
    SuperFly or MacCat
    Insulation
    Yetis & Mambas
    Suspension
    Webbing and rings
    Posts
    13,919
    Images
    136
    Glad you brought this up slowhike. I've been thinking about the topic a lot lately since I'm going to be hanging for about 200 days in a row. I totally agree that you should have plenty of warning time if it does begin to become a problem, but I really don't want to deal with it if it can be avoided. I've already decided to take the rings with me on my thru for all the reasons you listed.

    But, I really do like the cinch buckles and will probably use those on any other hikes or outings.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •