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  1. #11
    Senior Member Bradley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    The only place I've ever seen anyone claim that the Clark is 20F hammock by itself is on the Clark website. I've never heard anyone claim personal experience a Clark near that temp without additional insulation.

    YMMV, of course...but there are a lot of Clark users here, and winter hammockers here, and I have a strong feeling that if that claim could be validated we'd have independent evidence of it by now.

    Or maybe I just haven't been keeping up...if I'm mistaken, someone please point me in the right direction.
    There are two reference to the pockets that I can find on the site and you have it slightly off

    "Quote from Clark site"
    Patented pockets for insulation (Four-season models):
    The Clark North American is the only hammock that removes any need for insulating pads in most weather. The insulating pockets provide a stable air mass underneath you to block cold air from reaching your back.
    "Quote from Clark site"
    The Z-Liner system fits four-season models to create a comfortable bed in temperatures below 32° F (0° C).

    and

    Cold Weather Ratings for the Z-Liner are difficult to specify since they depend greatly upon what kind of sleeping bag or quilt you are using inside the hammock and how whether you are a cold sleeper.
    In general, the additon of the Z-liner should allow you to comfortably sleep at least 20° F (9° C) lower than you otherwise could. The Z-Liner has been thoroughly tested to work extremely well down to at least single digit temperatures (Fahrenheit) when deployed correctly.
    I hope that helps
    Bradley SaintJohn
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    That does help, Bradley - thanks. I haven't been to the site in a long time (over a year, probably) so that's an update...it used to say that it was a true 4-season hammock without any additional insulation, so this is a bit more accurate.

    Even so, I'd be skeptical that it would be comfortable to 32F without any additional insulation. Anyone have experience at that temp?
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Pak-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    That does help, Bradley - thanks. I haven't been to the site in a long time (over a year, probably) so that's an update...it used to say that it was a true 4-season hammock without any additional insulation, so this is a bit more accurate.

    Even so, I'd be skeptical that it would be comfortable to 32F without any additional insulation. Anyone have experience at that temp?
    I got a chance to use Snowwhites NA this past march and I was cold in it even with items stuffed into the pockets at just 55 Degrees, I dont even know if I would have been comfortable up to 10 Degrees warmer. I had to use a supplemental pad and even then my arms got cold if they touched the hammock..

    That was my primary reason for not purchasing one..

    "dirt"
    “Our ordinary mind always tries to persuade us that we are nothing but acorns and that our greatest happiness will be to become bigger, fatter, shinier acorns; but that is of interest only to pigs. Our faith gives us knowledge of something better: that we can become oak trees.”

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  4. #14
    Senior Member TinaLouise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    That does help, Bradley - thanks. I haven't been to the site in a long time (over a year, probably) so that's an update...it used to say that it was a true 4-season hammock without any additional insulation, so this is a bit more accurate.

    Even so, I'd be skeptical that it would be comfortable to 32F without any additional insulation. Anyone have experience at that temp?
    the clark web site says you need the z-liner to take it to 32 degrees.
    Anytime I've camped with my Tropical, I always have under quilts with me, for just in case!!! I'm a cold sleeper so I don't need for the temps to drop by much before I need an UQ. At 32 degrees, I'm already using my winter UQ!!! My friend with the NA can usually go a few degrees colder than I can before needing her UQ. For me, I need an UQ at about 74 or lower. She doesn't need one till like 69 or lower.

  5. #15
    Senior Member TinaLouise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pak-Man View Post
    I got a chance to use Snowwhites NA this past march and I was cold in it even with items stuffed into the pockets at just 55 Degrees, I dont even know if I would have been comfortable up to 10 Degrees warmer. I had to use a supplemental pad and even then my arms got cold if they touched the hammock..

    That was my primary reason for not purchasing one..

    "dirt"
    Insulating your hammock can be a real personal pain in the rear to figure out. Or, if you look at the other side of the coin... lots of planned backyard camp outs.
    I know I've camped in warmer temps and been colder than I should have been. And I've camped in colder temps with the exact same gear and been warmer. I've learned that for me, it's been user error. I found out that I was leaving the under quilt to loose and allowing air gaps.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Pak-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinaLouise View Post
    Insulating your hammock can be a real personal pain in the rear to figure out. Or, if you look at the other side of the coin... lots of planned backyard camp outs.
    I know I've camped in warmer temps and been colder than I should have been. And I've camped in colder temps with the exact same gear and been warmer. I've learned that for me, it's been user error. I found out that I was leaving the under quilt to loose and allowing air gaps.
    I opted to use the Hammock as recomended actually. I did not take an UQ, But instead opted to as they have it on there website and use items of clothing and gear to fill the pockets under me. It was no where close to being warm enough to sleep. I am not passing judgement on Clark or there products, just didnt work for me. I was in the process of finding a lighter hammock and was weighing the options of no UQ as a way to make the overall kit being lighter.

    That is my expeirience only... yours may vary drastically.

    "dirt"
    “Our ordinary mind always tries to persuade us that we are nothing but acorns and that our greatest happiness will be to become bigger, fatter, shinier acorns; but that is of interest only to pigs. Our faith gives us knowledge of something better: that we can become oak trees.”

    E. F. Schumacher

  7. #17
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinaLouise View Post
    the clark web site says you need the z-liner to take it to 32 degrees.
    According to Bradley's quote above, the Z-liner is for temps below 32F and will add another 20F to your system. This means it should be good for 12F-32F.

    Maybe neo, blood of antifreeze, could do it!
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

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    IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER

  8. #18
    Senior Member TinaLouise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    According to Bradley's quote above, the Z-liner is for temps below 32F and will add another 20F to your system. This means it should be good for 12F-32F.

    Maybe neo, blood of antifreeze, could do it!
    I would be a popsicle at those temps with the z-liner
    Maybe some of those guys that live up in alaska might be ok?? Like you said, antifreeze for blood. Clark had to have tested it with the hottest warmest sleeping person they could find.

  9. #19
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinaLouise View Post
    the clark web site says you need the z-liner to take it to 32 degrees.
    Anytime I've camped with my Tropical, I always have under quilts with me, for just in case!!! I'm a cold sleeper so I don't need for the temps to drop by much before I need an UQ. At 32 degrees, I'm already using my winter UQ!!! My friend with the NA can usually go a few degrees colder than I can before needing her UQ. For me, I need an UQ at about 74 or lower. She doesn't need one till like 69 or lower.
    Those are about the temps (probably closer to the 69) where I need to add a (very) little something to my non Clark hammocks, depending on wind and rain/humidity. That is, hammocks that have NO POCKETS underneath. Or, just laying on a synthetic bag will get me through temps like those. But people vary so much. If I could ever get my wife to try sleeping in a hammock, I bet she would be much like you.

    For clarification: you and your friend need an UQ added to the Clarks at about 69-74? What temp do you suppose you would be comfy at with a non-Clark? Because, like in my case, that sounds like about the temps where most folks need to add a little something. So how much extra warmth do you actually think you might be getting out of those Clarks?

    If you would need something at 80F(unlikely for most folks seems to me), then you would only be getting about 6*F extra from the pockets.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  10. #20
    Senior Member TinaLouise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Those are about the temps (probably closer to the 69) where I need to add a (very) little something to my non Clark hammocks, depending on wind and rain/humidity.

    If I could ever get my wife to try sleeping in a hammock, I bet she would be much like you.

    For clarification: you and your friend need an UQ added to the Clarks at about 69-74?

    What temp do you suppose you would be comfy at with a non-Clark?

    So how much extra warmth do you actually think you might be getting out of those Clarks?

    .
    What I've noticed from reading posts here is that most guys tend to sleep a bit warmer than females. Me and the other two people I camp with the clarks are female and we all tend to sleep cold and need more insulation. I've got two other scouters here, adult males, that have clarks and they don't seem to use as much insulation as we females do.

    Yes, I need my UQ (summer one, it's about 12oz. single layer thin climashield) at about 74 degrees. My friend will use a military poncho liner when it gets to about 69 degrees. She can continue to use that poncho liner way longer (as the temps drop) than I can use my summer UQ. I will be already using my winter UQ (down, 5" baffles, overstuffed!!!) while she's still got the poncho liner and is stuffing extra clothes into those Clark pockets.

    My Clark Tropical is just like my Grand Truck hammock in the warmth arena. I need just as much insulation in either. Remember that my pockets are spaced really far apart and I'm short!! Most of my body is between those pockets and the bottom of the hammock is just a single layer of material. When I've tried out my friends NA in the summer, no insulation on either. My hammock is cool, her's felt very warm on my backside. I could only stay in her's for a short time before I was too warm and had to get out. I personally don't know how she stood it when we were camping this year at Summer Camp Boy Scouts, when the temps were 107, dropping to high 80's at night. I think she used a fan all night long and I only had to run my fan a few minutes before I was cooled down and would turn it off.

    My conclusion is that the pockets do hold in heat and do reflect the wind. Not a lot but some. They are handy for putting stuff and if you put clothes in them, you do hold in more heat. The person using the hammock will have to determine just how much benifit they get though.

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