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  1. #11
    Senior Member Festus Hagen's Avatar
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    Your whoopie sling, at the end closest to the tree, is basically a loop. When you use a MSH you are hanging the loop off the knot. If you don't want to use a MSH/toggle, you could wrap the tree strap around the tree more than once if need be and through the sewn loop on one end, but now you need a way to attach the sewn loop in the other end to the loop formed by the whoopie. I think this is where the soft shackle or biner comes in.... hook the biner to the sewn loop on the tree strap, and hook the loop of the whoopie to the biner?

    Seems to me you still have to unhook your tree strap from the whoopie, if only briefly, to get your hammock down. Still you can clip it right back together and put the whole works away in "one piece", or by using a Dutch clip or biner to secure the tree strap to the tree you could even skip that. I've left tree straps behind on the trail so I can see the benefit of this method even tho I like to use the MSH.



    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    ???

    The soft shackle shown (and by the way, I too am a fan of using a sliding knot to close the loop rather than a bury loop) replaces a carabiner. I don't see that it has any relationship to a Marlin spike hitch, per se. You could use the soft shackle shown at the end of a webbed based suspension system rather than a biner (i.e., wrap the end with the soft shackle around the tree and connect to the webbing on the far side), and have the "single connection set up and take down" that appeals to you.

  2. #12
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus Hagen View Post
    Seems to me you still have to unhook your tree strap from the whoopie, if only briefly, to get your hammock down. Still you can clip it right back together and put the whole works away in "one piece", or by using a Dutch clip or biner to secure the tree strap to the tree you could even skip that. I've left tree straps behind on the trail so I can see the benefit of this method even tho I like to use the MSH.
    Yup use a dutch clip (sew it on so it doesn't fall out) or a biner you never have to take it apart. Just unhook. Everything stays attached. Virtually no chance of leaving anything behind. It could also be done with a soft shackle and either close the shackle or attach it so that it couldn't get left behind. Unhook and shove it into your bag, nothing ever touches the ground. Hammock won't get wet or dirty. Deploys the same way with nothing ever touching the ground. You don't even have to set your hammock down to sling the strap around a big tree, especially with a clip or biner for weight on the end.

    I'm not a fan of the marlin spike. I view it as the weak link. I haven't used it enough to get good at it. Then if it's not done right it will crush the stick. I don't like looking for sticks in the dark when I could be done in the time it takes to find 2 sticks.

    Nobody I hike with needs to be shown how to use a dutch clip or a biner twice. The Marlin spike is simple for a knot but complicated in comparison. A soft shackle most people get but I still find myself explaining it more than once. The whole hammock thing I find myself explaining repeatedly. I've convinced a few to turn away from their ground dwelling ways.

  3. #13
    Senior Member SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lando View Post
    How are the UCR's connected to the hammock? Through the channel, whipped...?
    Channel.
    NO SNIVELING!
    www.hikinghq.net - Hiking H.Q.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member miisterwright's Avatar
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    Carabiners are quick and easy. The best thing,maybe, is that it gives you some weight at the end of the strap so you can fling the strap around the tree and catch it instead of "hugging" the tree.

    Here in the northwest the trees are large enought that my 8' straps won't usually go around 1 1/2 - 2 times, and there are usually a couple in camp that are bigger than 8' around. I decided that 8' is the least I can get by with. The 5'? straps that came with my WBBB are nice, but not enough for this area. The marlin spike is quick and easy.
    There are plenty of good ways to attach to the strap, I like the Marlin Spike for simplicity, weight, and adjustability.

    Since the OP was about weight savings, I think UCR's and Marlin Spikes are about as light as it gets with adjustability. Whoopies are a little more solid when loaded, but take nearly twice the cord to span the same distance. Seem to me that ditching the hardwear (carabiners, rings, buckles) is the biggest way to drop weight.
    ~Bryan

  5. #15
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by miisterwright View Post
    Since the OP was about weight savings, I think UCR's and Marlin Spikes are about as light as it gets with adjustability. Whoopies are a little more solid when loaded, but take nearly twice the cord to span the same distance. Seem to me that ditching the hardwear (carabiners, rings, buckles) is the biggest way to drop weight.
    I agree ditching the hardware is the fastest way to lose weight. Soft shackles can easily be used instead I don't understand the need for a marlin spike. Tree hugger strap is heavy compared to amsteel whoopies. You can even go dynaglide which are even lighter. Crazy light if you ask me. Arrowhead sells some of the lightest tree strap around, it's about 5.6 grams per foot. Amsteel is about 1.5 grams per foot. Even needing twice as much per foot of amsteel is still nearly half of what tree strap weighs. Ditching the marlin spike lets you use shorter tree straps or get around bigger trees.

  6. #16
    GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeepcachr View Post
    I agree ditching the hardware is the fastest way to lose weight. Soft shackles can easily be used instead I don't understand the need for a marlin spike. Tree hugger strap is heavy compared to amsteel whoopies. You can even go dynaglide which are even lighter. Crazy light if you ask me. Arrowhead sells some of the lightest tree strap around, it's about 5.6 grams per foot. Amsteel is about 1.5 grams per foot. Even needing twice as much per foot of amsteel is still nearly half of what tree strap weighs. Ditching the marlin spike lets you use shorter tree straps or get around bigger trees.
    Imagine you found a pair of trees just 11' apart. The trees are, say, 12" in diameter. You have 4' webbing straps, so there is 11" or so of webbing that is left in the tail after working around the tree. Enough for a Marlin spike hitch.

    Your hammock's ridge-line is 10', leaving you only inches at each end, but enough room to tie a bowline in the suspension cord and loop over the Marlin spike hitch. As I often use UCRs, I push the UCR up the cord out of the way so I can make this bowline without the UCR getting in the way.

    I don't know of any cord+webbing suspension that let's you get in that close in a situation like this. I was sold on the Marlin spike hitch when it let me hang between a couple of posts in an AT shelter once, posts that were just beyond the spread of my ridgeline.

    If a whoopie sling is permanently attached to the tree hugger then the minimum distance between hammock and tree is at least

    (tree hugger length - circumference of tree) + (length of whoopie sling bury)

    Now you may point out that you can carry very short straps and have Amsteel extenders when needed, but that gets into more fussing with the suspension than I like to do on a normal basis, and in any case I think you'll want the whoopie sling bury "in the air" between hammock and tree, not laying up against the tree.

    So let us all hang our own hang, use whatever suspension appeals to us, optimize whatever criteria means most to us and make our choices appropriately. The criteria I optimize for is flexibility in finding trees that work---before going out I don't know the diameter of the trees I'll find nor the distance between them. The time I spend looking for trees is a lot larger than the time I spend at any other point on hanging the hammock. I find that 6' tree straps, 3" aluminum toggles for Marlin spike hitch, 6' of suspension cord with a UCR gives me a wide range of hanging options, from so close the tarp is kissing the trees at each end, to over 25' spans.

    my $0.05
    Last edited by GrizzlyAdams; 09-18-2010 at 08:37. Reason: get the geometry rigth
    Grizz
    (alias ProfessorHammock on youtube)

  7. #17
    New Member iambic's Avatar
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    I prefer the same 6'/3"/6' suspension mentioned by Griz and only wanted to add that I especially like being able to keep the webbing separate from the UCR/hammock. Out here in California many firs and pines in the Sierra Nevada are apt to dribble a little sap down their bark. It’s nice to be able to toss sticky webbing into its own separate bag, keeping the hammock and UCR sap free.

    During takedown, I’ll often shift my rucksack hanging from the UCR onto the toggle held fast by the marlin spike – that helps me remember to unfurl and stash the webbing. I’ve not yet had trouble accidentally leaving the webbing behind. (*fingers crossed!*)

    Addendum: I should have mentioned that if I know for certain the trees are going to be huge (e.g. redwoods, mercy!), I’ll pack a longer strap, maybe mixing a 6' with an 9'. I also often carry an extra length of dyneema (oh when will they make it in a more stealthy color?) or 7/64" amsteel for hacks, backup, or counterbalancing food in mild bear country. I can use it in a pinch to finish off the last stretch of tree wrapping to the sling, but I rarely need to do this.
    Last edited by iambic; 09-23-2010 at 21:39.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Buffalo Skipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iambic View Post
    Out here in California many firs and pines in the Sierra Nevada are apt to dribble a little sap down their bark. It’s nice to be able to toss sticky webbing into its own separate bag, keeping the hammock and UCR sap free.

    This got me to thinking. We have lots of longleaf pine here. Many of the older larger ones we once bled for naval stores, but almost all leak sap. Will cleaning them with turpentine degrade the polyprop? With what else could you clean this?
    Last edited by Buffalo Skipper; 09-23-2010 at 10:18.
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  9. #19
    beep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo Skipper View Post
    This got me to thinking. We have lots of longleaf pine here. Many of the older larger ones we once bled for naval stores, but almost all leak sap. Will cleaning them with terpentine degrade the polyprop? With what else could you clean this?
    I don't think turpentine would have any major deleterious effect. I would, however, give the straps a thorough rinse and drying after cleaning with turpentine.
    "The more I carry the happier I am in camp; the less I carry the happier I am getting there" - Sgt. Rock

  10. #20
    beep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    I find that 6' tree straps, 3" aluminum toggles for Marlin spike hitch, 6' of suspension cord with a UCR gives me a wide range of hanging options, from so close the tarp is kissing the trees at each end, to over 25' spans.
    I want to watch Professor Hammock get his tree huggers high enough at a 25 foot span between trees! That'd be educational and entertaining!!

    Then again, that's another use for hiking poles...to extend one's reach for tree hugger placement!
    "The more I carry the happier I am in camp; the less I carry the happier I am getting there" - Sgt. Rock

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