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  1. #21
    Senior Member rjcress's Avatar
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    Dying to see the details on this.
    Sounds like just the design I've beenlooking for
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  2. #22
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    ok here's my nitpicking...

    why the sock at all? wouldn't prudence tell you that instead of sinking 7 or 8 ounces into a the nylon sock, wouldn't those ounces be better served in down in a top quilt or underquilt? for example... these would both balance out to the same pack weight, which i think is the ultimate goal...

    1 sock
    or
    4+oz down into top quilt
    4+oz down into bottom quilt

    i don't know if that's all i have to say about it, but that's it for now. i can in no way, shape, or form see how that thing can be beneficial...

  3. #23
    bloomgorge's Avatar
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    i think the only benefit it has is reducing drafts. if the material doesn't allow for air flow then i would think it would help create a pocket and not rob the TQ and UQ of heat. i actually think by using a sock you should be able to reduce the down so instead of using a 4 season UQ you could probably get by with a 3 season. i know when i use my top cover on my HH i stay warmer than when i don't with similar conditions.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    That's a good point, and a valid question. Two major reasons I see...it keeps the wind off my face and toes, and it keeps moisture off the TQ/UQ.

    Keeping the wind off stops convection from stealing the heat from the TQ/UQ...that may balance out with the extra down, but certainly not on my face. My nose and toes are always a lot warmer when I use a sock (especially on windy nights).

    When I was at Winnemucca, the dry snow was coming under my tarp, floating up above me, and landing on my PeaPod. Then it was melting and wetting my down insulation. But if the sock gets damp, it's much easier to dry. It can also stop windblown rain, fog, etc. But that kind of moisture management depends on environmental conditions...have to balance it against condensation from my breath.

    Also just gives some privacy.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

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  5. #25
    Senior Member ShadowAlpha's Avatar
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    I'm curious what the pattern is..

  6. #26
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    you don't get the similar effects from closing up your tarp?

    4 oz is the difference b/t a 20 degree UQ and a 0 degree top or underquilt according to stormcrow's crowsnest chart... sooooo 4 to each should make at LEAST a 20 degree difference. do you feel that the sock makes that much change?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    I measured more than that last night at one point, but I don't think it's a consistent 20f on the thermometer. It makes a huge difference on wind chill, though...which doesn't show up on the thermometer.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

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  8. #28
    bloomgorge's Avatar
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    i would think the sock creates a pocket of air that doesn't release or if it does, it's slow enough that air warms prior which helps maintain an environment that improves sleep. unlike a tarp which allows air to leak into your hanging space via cracks in the doors or in between gaps from the ground to tarp. now if you hung your tarp and back filled the openings with snow i think this would be somewhere between a regular tarp and sock.
    if the sock material doesn't allow the transfer of air (easily) i would think anything loss from heat transfer of the down to the atmosphere would be retained a little further within the sock before either releasing/equilibrium between air side and your side of sock or absorbing back into the down. also, because the sock is basically hanging on the ridge line and/or bugnet any rising hot air is slighly deflected downward again back into the sleeper a few more times (breathing circulation) prior to escape which also raises temperature slightly from just using a tarp.
    to Jeff's point - using a sock will also not allow passing air to rob heat built up in quilts as quickly if the material doesn't breath 100%.
    just my thoughts...

  9. #29
    MAD777's Avatar
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    I would think that the variability of temperature differential measured comes from the fact that gusting winds will have somewhat of a billows affect on the sock and exchange a bit of air periodically. This is probably a good thing from a condensation management standpoint.

  10. #30
    bloomgorge's Avatar
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    so would adding a strip of material that is slightly more breathable improve condensation while still maintaining warmth, similar to what Tim does with his quilts for loft, or do you think it's not needed?
    i know with my HH top cover i still get a little condensation with the port hole.

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