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  1. #11
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    A Zeppelin knot isn't any harder to remember how to tie than a butterfly knot... if you know you know, if you don't then you don't. A butterfly works well for loops in the middle of a cord because you don't need access to the ends of the cord to tie it. But it slipped for me on a hammock suspension line when I tried to use as an attachment point for a removable ridgeline for a bugnet (and no, there was nothing attached to the butterfly loop when they slipped).

    AmSteel is very slippery and it doesn't work well with a lot of knots that more traditional rope does.
    Youngblood AT2000

  2. #12
    Member MadRacDad's Avatar
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    In my very limited experience with amsteel, the butterflys will work but make sure you don't want to untie them. So, I'm with the butterflys in the middle 8's on the ends crowd. I tried to untie butterflies and it was a real b%$#! after they had been loaded. Just my 10 cents.
    I think that I shall never see
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youngblood View Post
    AmSteel is very slippery and it doesn't work well with a lot of knots that more traditional rope does.
    this is why I wrote this:

    Quote Originally Posted by moimeme_81 View Post
    with a reasonable size loop, too small it'll slip
    never had any problem with amsteel for making any knot the only thing is that you have to adapt the knot to the rope...

    I don't think a knot is you know it then you know it or if you don't you just don't. I think that any knot can be remembered with a simple story, this is a personal opinion not a fact, but whatever the knot you use you have to be comfortable and know how it looks like so you can check if there is a problem with it or not...

    chris
    why should I have a rock, a root or anything else hurting my back in camping?

  4. #14
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    by the way, the zeppelin use 47.9% less ropes than the figure height which is 7.7% less than the alpine butterfly so they are pretty much the same in terme of rope usage...
    why should I have a rock, a root or anything else hurting my back in camping?

  5. #15
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    If you are looking to use a loop at the ends that does knot need to be at a right angle to the line then I would consider a Perfection Loop as demonstrated at Animatedknots.com. I do not have much experience with it but it is easy to make and does not tend to come loose. I find it easier and quicker (by a few seconds) than making a bowline and it seems to be about as easy to untie.

    I have never heard of a zepplin loop before but the perfection loop seems quicker and easier than it is to make and to my laymans eyes it would work just as well.

    I am not a knot person so some of you may see flaws in the perfection loop that I don't.

    My 2 cents.

    Dave

  6. #16
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youngblood View Post
    I had butterfly knots slip with AmSteel when I tried them on hammock suspension line.

    I would take a look at cascading Zeppelin loops/bends along a cord. I am really impressed with the Zeppelin and try to use it with the AmSteel as much as possible because I think it solves most of the 'knot issues' with AmSteel.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadRacDad View Post
    In my very limited experience with amsteel, the butterflys will work but make sure you don't want to untie them. So, I'm with the butterflys in the middle 8's on the ends crowd. I tried to untie butterflies and it was a real b%$#! after they had been loaded. Just my 10 cents.
    We tried Alpine Butterflys in a hammock suspension cord with Amsteel Blue.

    Some things we learned:

    1. The Alpine Butterfly WILL slip in Amsteel Blue in a hammock suspension cord, i.e., the size of the loops will pull down to strangle whatever is in the loop and then the knot will pull exceedingly tight, and
    2. If you want to ever untie the knot, schedule a LOOOOOONG afternoon and get a VERY good, strong and small diameter tool to work out the knots with, and
    3. DO NOT allow small children in the same room when you are attempting to untie the knots, they will be educated


    For a series of Alpine Butterflys in the hammock suspension cord, in our experience the unused loops pulled down such that the loops practically disappeared into the knot.

    One experiment was all we tried though

  7. #17
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    Good points TF and very funny. Despite making a pitch for the alpine butterfly Ive gotta agree with you. In the past I've always promoted the "no knots in amsteel" philosophy. Please forgive my moment of weakness.
    Knotty
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  8. #18
    New Member Jeeps's Avatar
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    I'm assuming the two end knots are for suspension purposes? Are the other two for shorter suspensions or are they just for utility purposes (hanging things off of)?

    If the two middle ones are for utility then you could put a locked brummel on either end
    http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=13328 then prussic loop the other two to hang stuff off of.

    Jeeps

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knotty View Post
    Good points TF and very funny. Despite making a pitch for the alpine butterfly Ive gotta agree with you. In the past I've always promoted the "no knots in amsteel" philosophy. Please forgive my moment of weakness.
    Yeah, I was wondering were that came from when you suggested butterfly knots with AmSteel... I thought my mind was playing tricks on me.

    If you use that Zeppelin bend that Tired Feet and TeeDee introduced me to, I think you might change your mind about your 'no knots' stance. You do have to dress the knot in a certain way. It is the natural way you would tend to do it when joining two cords, it is with loops that it is easy to stray if you aren't paying attention.
    Youngblood AT2000

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youngblood View Post
    Yeah, I was wondering were that came from when you suggested butterfly knots with AmSteel... I thought my mind was playing tricks on me.

    If you use that Zeppelin bend that Tired Feet and TeeDee introduced me to, I think you might change your mind about your 'no knots' stance. You do have to dress the knot in a certain way. It is the natural way you would tend to do it when joining two cords, it is with loops that it is easy to stray if you aren't paying attention.
    Love the Zeppelin bend but don't think I've tried it with Amsteel yet.
    Knotty
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