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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rob3E's Avatar
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    Descending ring + toggle on a whoopie sling?

    I've only hung my Hennessy tent out a few times last year, but I can definitely see the appeal of a different suspension system. After watching several videos and reading 70 pages of of the main Whoopie Sling thread, it sounds like an excellent system, but the one thing I read was that the loop can slip off of the toggle when adjusting. So I was wondering: what if, instead of a bead or a knot to keep the sling from being pulled into itself, I just used a descending ring? Then the toggle could be threaded through the ring, or the webbing could be pulled through the ring before adding the toggle. Either way, the ring wouldn't fall off the toggle without intervention on my part, and whoopie sling loop should glide easily through the ring, making adjustments smooth and without the danger (well, okay, inconvenience) of the loop hopping off of the toggle.

    Are there any pitfalls to this approach? I expect that the backpacking, gram counting set wouldn't want to add the extra grams of the descending ring, and I can appreciate that, but since I do my toting on a bike, I'm little less careful with weight, and it seems like the weight of a couple of rings might be justified by their convenience. Any thoughts from the pros in the group?

  2. #2
    Senior Member opie's Avatar
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    If you are going that way....

    Put the descending ring inline with your suspension on the hammock side so its under the tarp. Build your adjustable loop in the ring and use the fixed eye of the sling to attach to the toggle.
    I am not a gram weenie. , But Im starting to see the merits!!!

    Kris' Splicing

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Rob3E's Avatar
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    But if the point of the descending ring was to keep the hammock suspension line from slipping off of the toggle during adjustments. If I'm using a fixed eye at the toggle end, I don't need a descending ring at all, right?

    But then that means that the adjustable end of the sling attaches to the hammock itself, which would render it non-adjustable, so I guess that's where the descending ring would fit in: Hammock attaches to a short, non-adjustable line with a descending ring which is also attached to the adjustable end of the whoopie sling, which then attaches via a fixed loop on the other end to the toggle on the webbing. Is that what you're suggesting?

    I'm trying to think if that would affect the minimum hang distance. I'm thinking it would increase the minimum hang distance by 2 X the length of the non-adjustable hammock-to-descending ring link, which might not be desirable. Also, although I don't know if anyone has suffered significant wear using Amsteel Blue, I wonder if it would become an issue always attaching the fixed loop to the toggle. The pressure points on the rope would be consistently on the same part of the rope, whereas using the toggle/descending ring combo, the tension on the rope varies with the length of the hang.

    However, I am new to all of this, and even after 70 pages of Whoopie Sling talk, I am quite possibly not understanding something.

  4. #4
    Senior Member rip waverly's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrYQM...eature=related

    replace dutch biner with descender ring
    "Jeff-Becking"

    DOWNTOWN BROWN!!!!

  5. #5
    Senior Member opie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob3E View Post
    But if the point of the descending ring was to keep the hammock suspension line from slipping off of the toggle during adjustments. If I'm using a fixed eye at the toggle end, I don't need a descending ring at all, right?
    Not at the marlin spike point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob3E View Post
    But then that means that the adjustable end of the sling attaches to the hammock itself, which would render it non-adjustable, so I guess that's where the descending ring would fit in: Hammock attaches to a short, non-adjustable line with a descending ring which is also attached to the adjustable end of the whoopie sling, which then attaches via a fixed loop on the other end to the toggle on the webbing. Is that what you're suggesting?
    Yes... If you want to add a ring into your suspension for whatever reason, make it do something. Adding it on the hammock end it will also serve as a drip ring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob3E View Post
    I'm trying to think if that would affect the minimum hang distance. I'm thinking it would increase the minimum hang distance by 2 X the length of the non-adjustable hammock-to-descending ring link, which might not be desirable. Also, although I don't know if anyone has suffered significant wear using Amsteel Blue, I wonder if it would become an issue always attaching the fixed loop to the toggle. The pressure points on the rope would be consistently on the same part of the rope, whereas using the toggle/descending ring combo, the tension on the rope varies with the length of the hang.
    Yes, it will effect minimum hang distance. But we are only talking about inches on either side. You can get the ring pretty close to your hammock.

    I doubt youd wear the Amsteel out in your lifetime. But if it concerns you, build the eye with some sort of abrasion sleeve over the cord. Paracord sheath seems to be popular. I use tubular webbing on the larger lines I use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob3E View Post
    However, I am new to all of this, and even after 70 pages of Whoopie Sling talk, I am quite possibly not understanding something.
    No, its not you.
    I am not a gram weenie. , But Im starting to see the merits!!!

    Kris' Splicing

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  6. #6
    Bubba's Avatar
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    An issue with your original idea is the you would need a really strong toggle because the ring would be exerting force on it. On a typical marlin spike hitch and whoopie set up, the amsteel sits on the knot and not the toggle. In this scenario you do not need a strong toggle. I have even seen someone use a pen as a toggle.
    Don't let life get in the way of living.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rob3E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odds View Post
    An issue with your original idea is the you would need a really strong toggle because the ring would be exerting force on it. On a typical marlin spike hitch and whoopie set up, the amsteel sits on the knot and not the toggle. In this scenario you do not need a strong toggle. I have even seen someone use a pen as a toggle.
    Aha. I had noticed in some of the videos that there was reference to the loop going on the knot, not the toggle, and I didn't understand why. So I can see where the descending ring might cause trouble. I can also imagine that, depending on the size of the ring and size of the marlin spike hitch, it might still be possible to put that tension on the knot, rather than the toggle, but it might not be as easy, and so would defeat the purpose of adding an easier suspension system. I'll have to ponder this some more. Or try it and see if I fall on my @ss.

  8. #8
    Syb's Avatar
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    Rob3E, have you thought about using the following setup?
    From the tree... straps with the fixed eye of the whoopies larksheaded to the straps --->
    Whoopies going down to a Dutch 'Biner ---> short piece of continuous loop amsteel or rope of your choice larksheaded to the hammock? The Dutch 'Biner also serves as an attachment point for your RL. How's that sound?

    Ha! rip_waverly just beat me to it.
    Last edited by Syb; 02-23-2011 at 13:07. Reason: rip_waverly types faster than I do
    Syb
    Enjoy the elevation

  9. #9
    Senior Member Rob3E's Avatar
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    I had thought of using a carabiner (Dutch or otherwise) instead of a toggle. Certainly an option. I just saw that some people were putting a bead or knot into their adjustable loops to keep them from coming undone. I thought if I used a descending ring instead, it might be useful as an attachment point for the toggle. I could just as easily use a carabiner, but then I'd have to remember to leave it in place, or I'd have to use a carabiner and a bead, just in case.

    I have seen examples with the descending ring added to the sling and then sewn into one end of the webbing, but I was hoping to avoid that, partly because it seems handy to have the webbing separate from the rest of the suspension. Seems like it would make it easier to set up the webbing first and not have to deal with the rest of the hammock and suspension system until the webbing was in place, but maybe it's not that big of deal. I kind of like the loop-and-toggle method as it seems pretty light on equipment needs. You can carry toggles if you want, but if you don't have them, substitutes are easy to find. Not so if you misplace your carabiner. Also in the video I'm unclear as to why, in the first attachment, there is an additional piece of Amsteel on the webbing to connect the 'biner. Couldn't the 'biner go right to the webbing loop? Most of my hangs so far have been in pretty tight spaces, so I do worry about needlessly adding length to my minimum hang length. The whoopie sling does that on its own, but provides enough benefit for me to easily justify the extra length, but I'm not sure what the benefit is of that extra piece of rope between the webbing and dutch biner.

    Opie, I see the appeal of having a ring as a drip ring, but I got the impression that with the whoopie sling, that was seldom necessary as the tail of the sling served the same purpose. I'll take whatever precautions are necessary are to stay dry, but if an additional drip ring is not required, I would probably not further complicate the suspension system to add it in.

    I am not looking for ways/reasons to arbitrarily add a descending ring into the system. I just wondered if there were any drawbacks to using it as the piece of the suspension that grabs on to the toggle. It seemed to me that the only drawback was the added grams, but perhaps there are other concerns that I'm not aware of. But then I guess if the descending ring is not a workable solution, it doesn't do any harm. It just takes the place of the bead and hangs there uselessly, letting my use the "normal" loop-and-toggle connection with the rope. Hanging there it might even help redirect some water.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Rug's Avatar
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    Check out this thread (and pics).
    http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=12670
    I ride a recumbent.
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    Of course I sleep in a hammock!

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