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  1. #1
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    NiteIze Figure 9 slips on wet mason line

    Last night, I finally put the Figure 9s on my tarp according to the instructions for "fixed end system" in the little leaflet. It was pouring down rain pretty hard, but I really wanted to spend the night in the hammock. And I thought the Figure 9s would make setup quicker... As I put in the final stake for the side guy-outs, there was a gust of wind and the ridgeline collapsed.

    I first thought that the end of the line must have come out of the teeth on one of the Figure 9s. That was not the case. The whole thing just slid along the line. I tried to retighten, but it would just keep slipping with very little resistance. I ended up tying a knot, and the Figure 9's held fine all night in the rain and wind.

    I was using braided mason line from Home Depot. I had tested the Figure 9s with this line before, and they did not slip when loaded. The test, of course, was with dry line only. Bit of a bummer to have something fail under the conditions where you need it most!

    Has anybody else seen this happen? How do you tie your Figure 9s on the ridgeline?

    Oh, btw, I am using the small Figure 9s.

  2. #2
    GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneiderlein View Post
    Last night, I finally put the Figure 9s on my tarp according to the instructions for "fixed end system" in the little leaflet. It was pouring down rain pretty hard, but I really wanted to spend the night in the hammock. And I thought the Figure 9s would make setup quicker... As I put in the final stake for the side guy-outs, there was a gust of wind and the ridgeline collapsed.

    I first thought that the end of the line must have come out of the teeth on one of the Figure 9s. That was not the case. The whole thing just slid along the line. I tried to retighten, but it would just keep slipping with very little resistance. I ended up tying a knot, and the Figure 9's held fine all night in the rain and wind.

    I was using braided mason line from Home Depot. I had tested the Figure 9s with this line before, and they did not slip when loaded. The test, of course, was with dry line only. Bit of a bummer to have something fail under the conditions where you need it most!

    Has anybody else seen this happen? How do you tie your Figure 9s on the ridgeline?

    Oh, btw, I am using the small Figure 9s.
    I'm not surprised. I've had slippage with the figure 9 on small diameter rope under high tension also. I've taken to making a couple of times around the "fat" stem first (normally just 180 degrees around this stem, to redirect the tension toward the teeth slot), then through the teeth, back to the stem, and back to the teeth again. Makes it less easy to adjust, but not so much so.

    Grizz

  3. #3
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    Now that I think about it, maybe the problem was not so much the line being wet, but the line catching on the tree bark. I think by pulling the tarp tight, I might have actually unloaded the line going to the tree, which led to the Figure 9 slipping in the loop. Any thoughts?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    I'm not surprised. I've had slippage with the figure 9 on small diameter rope under high tension also. I've taken to making a couple of times around the "fat" stem first (normally just 180 degrees around this stem, to redirect the tension toward the teeth slot), then through the teeth, back to the stem, and back to the teeth again. Makes it less easy to adjust, but not so much so.

    Grizz
    Thanks, Grizz. I was thinking about not running the rope to the tree and back again at all. Instead, I thought I could just make a loop around the tree and attach the Figure 9 to the tarp with a knot. This would avoid the problem of the rope catching on the tree bark, and I would only need 1/2 the amount of rope.

    If it is not raining tonight, I will try your method and the single line from the tree to see what I like. I'll also ditch the mason line, because it tangles up so badly.

  5. #5
    GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneiderlein View Post
    Now that I think about it, maybe the problem was not so much the line being wet, but the line catching on the tree bark. I think by pulling the tarp tight, I might have actually unloaded the line going to the tree, which led to the Figure 9 slipping in the loop. Any thoughts?
    I have definitely had the figure-9 slip when not sufficiently loaded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schneiderlein View Post
    Thanks, Grizz. I was thinking about not running the rope to the tree and back again at all. Instead, I thought I could just make a loop around the tree and attach the Figure 9 to the tarp with a knot. This would avoid the problem of the rope catching on the tree bark, and I would only need 1/2 the amount of rope.

    If it is not raining tonight, I will try your method and the single line from the tree to see what I like. I'll also ditch the mason line, because it tangles up so badly.
    I very much like the idea of a loop around the tree with a single strand back to a figure-9 at the tarp tie-line! (wish I'd thought of that before...!)

    All lines tangle on me, including Speers "no-tangle" guy-line Guess I have the touch. So I make a special effort to bundle up any length of cord I have when it's not in use.

    Grizz

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    I have definitely had the figure-9 slip when not sufficiently loaded.



    I very much like the idea of a loop around the tree with a single strand back to a figure-9 at the tarp tie-line! (wish I'd thought of that before...!)

    All lines tangle on me, including Speers "no-tangle" guy-line Guess I have the touch. So I make a special effort to bundle up any length of cord I have when it's not in use.

    Grizz
    I guess the downside of a single line is that you lose the mechanical advantage, but for a tarp you don't need much force anyway. And if the rope catches on the bark, the advantage is not there anyway. And, of course, you have to keep track of a separate item. I'll try tonight to see how it works.

    I must have that "touch" worse than you. I have tried to bundle up the lines nice and neat, and I end up with tangled up bundles! Maybe having the ropes separate is not such a bad thing, at least you could wrap them around a stake to keep them tangle-free.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    All lines tangle on me, including Speers "no-tangle" guy-line Guess I have the touch. So I make a special effort to bundle up any length of cord I have when it's not in use.

    Grizz
    Any line that you can tie a knot with can tangle on you... some are much worse at it than others. And some catch on brush and twigs more easily, I think the line that is very limp just whips around every twig it touches.

    I use a technique that cuts down on tangles and that is to roll pairs of guyline together and use the material of the tarp to grab those as I'm stuffing my tarp in the order it should come out. That keeps them separate and keeps them from moving around. When I pull my tarp out they come out in pairs and aren't too bad about tangling. It is very quick and easy to do. The last thing that goes in that stuff sack is the rolled up ridgeline and it is the first thing out and gets tied off to a tree before most of the tarp comes out of the stuff sack. The tarp comes out in proper order and the last thing out of the stuff sack is the other ridgeline which was rolled up and put in first before I started stuffing the tarp. I leave one ridgeline tied off while I stuff the tarp, walking towards it as I stuff the tarp/roll guylines. It helps to have an over sized stuff sack and let it compress to a smaller size when you pack it.
    Youngblood AT2000

  8. #8
    Senior Member DGrav's Avatar
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    I use the yellow Aircore and it has held even in the rain.

    I have the Fig 9 set up in the "Secure in any location along the length of rope" confguration as show on the pack. the Fig 9 is on the rope about a foot from the tarp. I send the working end of the rope around the tree and back to the Fig 9. If I need to tighten it I do so from the side of the line after it pass around the tree. If the trees are a bit farther appart than the norm I slide the Fig 9 farther from the tarp.

  9. #9
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    I have used the BPL yellow dyneema guy cord and now the Samson 1.75 mm Lash-it cord with the small Figure 9s. Both wet and dry - no slippage problems. At one time I seemed to have a slippage problem with the large Figure 9 and some 3 mm Dyneema cord from BPL, but when I tried again a few months later, I couldn't repeat the slippage problem.

    If you know anybody that knits a lot, ask them to teach you how to coil yarn. They have a trick for coiling the yarn in a figure 8 pattern that stops tangling. You can use the same trick for figure 8 coiling guy line cord.

    Basically, using the index finger and the little finger (the two middle fingers are curled into the palm), coil the cord around in a figure 8 pattern. That lays coils on top of each other and prevents a lot of the tangling. With a regular straight coil, the coils become meshed with each other, The figure 8 pattern prevents that from happening. Works great for me.

    I can take 20' to 50' of guy line cord in a figure 8 coil, hold the free end and toss the coil and have it come out, no tangles. If I try that with a straight coil, I get a complete tangled mess most of the time.

  10. #10
    Dutch's Avatar
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    I have had problems with Kelty tripease slipping on my 9s wet and dry. I haven't had any problem with mason line yet. I try to really pull it onto the teeth. I'm glad someone brought this subject up. Until now I was ashamed to admit I had trouble with the figure 9s. Now that I know others are willing to admit to the problem. maybe the healing can begin. We could start a support group dedicated to helping each other.
    Last edited by Dutch; 02-18-2008 at 12:52.
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