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  1. #11
    Senior Member wildcrafter's Avatar
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    i seen him use it down to 33 at the hoosier hang dp lived to another day
    welcome to planet earth no one gets out alive

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    Ohski,
    I think it's impressive that dp is combining ultralight gear with economical gear - the two don't usually go together. I note that he qualifies his 40 to 45 degree ratings with the suggestion that hangers use the recognized UL practice of sleeping in long underwear or some other suitable garments to supplement the insulation of the quilts. What did you wear?
    Top - REI polartec long underwear, 100 weight fleece, wool shirt (looks like flannel). I was good with this... back, arms, sholders were all fine.
    Bottom - boxers, and REI polartec long underwear. Cold butt and underside of legs were cool.
    Feet - Smartwool medium hiking crew (fresh and dry). Feet were good for the most part.

    My pants were muddy so I didn't wear them to bed... had they been clean I would have worn them and the only problem I would have had would have been a cold butt.

    Like I said I'm a cold sleeper... I know this is true. The DP gear rocks..!

    Ski

  3. #13
    Senior Member d-p's Avatar
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    dp Insulation, ect ...

    Hangers,

    dp really appreciates the kind words with our focus.

    "Reliable - Ultra-Lite - low-cost"

    Syb asked what kind of insulation dp is using with our quilts ...

    I hope we don't offend anyone with our answer ... and I hope this isn't "too much information" for you?

    First a little "cottage" business information ... after one designs their products, supply vendors will be the next hurdle. And trust me, it's a pretty substantial hurdle. Especially when you are wanting to keep your product with a low selling price point.

    We've searched a LONG time locating vendors who are up to our standards. You might notice, we've taken the ''Spinntec'' tack of naming our fabrics to protect where we purchase. We figure with the countless hours and costs of aligning our vendors, should DIY'ers want to take advantage of our research, a small profit is in order for small quanity purchases.

    FYI: the fabric, "Spinntec" has been stalled due to the major user may not re-order. That is the word from the Eruopean mill that produced it. So, Spinntec may not ever be again. dp was offered the same formula if we would take a 5,000 meter run. Paid in advance. Needless to say, we aren't ready for that kind of comittment.

    Most Asian fabric mills don't want to talk to you unless you are ready to order 1,000 yards or more. And most don't even want to send you a sample before hand.

    Most USA mills have strict minimums which are much too large for a DIY'er.



    So, back to what synthetic insulation we are using. The synthetic insulation we have decided to use is 48" wide with a 1/2" loft, polyester product.

    Absorbs little water and dries quickly. We sell it for $4.50 yard. The heat rentention quality is created with the insulation being loosely sandwiched between to layers of nylon fabric.

    User loft is up to 4" in areas. In areas of pressure, the loft can decline greatly. This is the reason, you may have some cold spots using our quilts. To eliminate the cold spot, you will need to move and move the pressure/ squashed area.

    Personally, I get cold easily, and dp has found our quilts are comfortable to 40*. I'm sure you know, quilt/sleeping bag temperature ratings are subject to each manufacturer as no standards have been established.

    dp at 40*? Again, you may notice some cold spots at 40*. Some may notice some cold spots at 50*. All dp knows is, at 40* with our quilts, we are not awake shivering.

    Chilly or want more heat? Pop your head under the dp "Head-Hole" and breathe some 98* warm air inside?

    We have tired doubling the insulation. This adds much bulk with little extra heat rentention. For below freezing temperatures, dp recommends Down which will not absorb water since all water is frozen. However don't try using your breath as a heater with Down. Which one can do pretty well with synthetics.

    Syb, I know that doesn't answer your question, but hopefully it explains why dp is evasive ... and a little more about our cottage.

    Thank you again for your interest and promoting a cottage business that wants you to backpack more comfortably, again, Reliable, U-L, and low cost.

    Happy Trails
    dave

    www.dphammockgear.com

  4. #14
    Yoda's Avatar
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    There actually is a testing standard for sleeping bag temperature rating and has been around for a few years, it was recently adopted here in the US by many large companies, its called the EN13537!

    EN 13537:2002 "Requirements for Sleeping Bags" is the official European Standard for the labelling of sleeping bags that also defines how sleeping bags must be tested and rated. EN13537 applies to all sleeping bags with the exception of sleeping bags for military use and sleeping bags for extreme temperatures (i.e. comfort range below -25°C).

    The EN methodology produces temperature ratings that can be trusted and compared head-to-head with the EN ratings on other brands' bags. If you know the temperature range you'll encounter on your overnight trip, you can compare EN-rated bags and confidently choose the one that will best ensure a comfortable night's sleep.

    The standard has an important legal meaning to brands, distributors and retailers, who sell sleeping bags in Europe. In case sleeping bags should be defined as safety relevant equipment, EN 13537 will be the product test within the PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) initiative.


    Temperature ratings

    Comparing sleeping bags in the past was more of a gamble for end consumers. Temperature labels were rather confusing than informative – and in many cases simply wrong. Choosing a sleeping bag became additionally difficult because many bags were either not tested at all or examined according to various national standards, which could not be compared with each other. The EN Standard 13537 is in effect since 2002 and since 2005, all new sleeping bags offered in the marketplace must be EN tested.

    How sleeping bags are tested according to EN 13537

    For EN 13537 temperature tests, a life-size mannequin (based on a "standard man” and "standard woman" of average age, weight and height) with heaters and temperature sensors is dressed in one layer of long underwear and a hat. It is placed inside the sleeping bag being tested. The bag is laid atop an insulating sleeping pad inside a climate-controlled chamber. The mannequin is heated to simulate body warmth and measurements are taken of the air in the climate chamber and the surface ("skin") of the mannequin. From these measurements, the insulation value of the sleeping bag is determined. These calculations provide four EN temperatures ratings.

    * Upper Limit — the temperature at which a standard man can sleep without excessive perspiration. It is established considering the hood and zippers are open.
    * Comfort — the temperature at which a standard woman can expect to sleep comfortably in a relaxed position.
    * Lower Limit — the temperature at which a standard man can sleep for eight hours in a curled position without waking.
    * Extreme — the minimum temperature at which a standard woman can remain for six hours without risk of death from hypothermia (though frostbite is still possible).

    Only a sleeping bag, which fully complies with all aspects of EN 13537 is entitled to display the CE symbol on the product and hangtag.
    Temperature Standard vs. Personal Feeling

    Everyone’s sensitivity to temperature is different. This should be taken into account when buying a sleeping bag and looking at the temperature ratings on the hangtag.

    The factors that have an essential influence are, for example, whether you are a man or a woman, whether you are rested or exhausted when going to sleep, how much or little you ate, whether you drank alcohol, or how much you move in your sleep. In addition, your sleeping bag will perform differently depending on the wind exposure of your camp, the insulating performance of your mat, and the humidity level of the air.

    Here are a few links:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_13537
    http://www.prima-outdoor.com/european-standard/
    http://www.mckinley.eu/knowhow/sleep...ature-standard

    Here is REI's little write-up:
    http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles
    /sleeping+bag+backpacking.html#EN_Temperature_Ratin gs

    I am still a little confused on the secretive nature on what insulation you are using! I am not aware of any manufacturer that this information can not be found, this is actually a deciding factor for some as there are literally thousands of replies and testings that have been done and have been posted over on BPL on the differences between types of synthetic insulation on the market and what manufacturers are using! I think you will find that there are many (if not most/all) will want to know what they are buying before they purchase!

    I am not trying to be rude or brash or anything like that so please don't take it that way!
    Formerly known as "Cranky Bear"....

    "yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift---thats why its called a present" - Master Oogway

    It's always best if your an early riser!

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  5. #15
    Senior Member bigfoot2's Avatar
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    Insulation/EU Temp. Ratings.

    Glad you beat me to it, Cranky Bear. I was going to make just about the same post.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LadtJCmUOpo

    BF
    Last edited by bigfoot2; 04-24-2011 at 11:53.

  6. #16
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    I suspect that most cottage industries don't have access to that type of equipment.

  7. #17
    Senior Member bigfoot2's Avatar
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    Old School Temp. Rating Calculator.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
    I suspect that most cottage industries don't have access to that type of equipment.
    From Western Mountaineering (true today as in the 60's):

    "The Evolution of Temperature Ratings
    Years ago in the early '60's, mountaineers selected bags by looking at the "fill weight". They were aware that down bags with less than 20 ounces of down were summer weight, and for winter use they would look for a bag with 35 or more ounces of down. Fill weights were used as a rough estimate of a bags temperature value. Then, in an effort to make purchases easier, temperature ratings came into vogue. However, by simplifying the process they not only introduced manufacturer interpretation, but also steered customers from understanding the mechanics of how a sleeping bag works. Since it is the individual's metabolism that heats a sleeping bag, it remains important for you to fully understand the functions of fill weight, loft, internal girth, etc. No amount of simplification will benefit the customer. Only by understanding how a bag works will a customer make the correct choice. To this day fill weights are still listed in manufacturers charts because of how useful they really are!"

    Goes the same for synthetics. Measure the loft(synthetics and down)/fill weights(down) and you will have a good idea about the temp. rating of a bag/top bag/under quilt. The only variable for synthetic loft is the quality of the insulation being used, hence the importance of knowing WHAT it is.

    BF
    Last edited by bigfoot2; 04-24-2011 at 21:22.

  8. #18
    Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-p View Post
    I'm sure you know, quilt/sleeping bag temperature ratings are subject to each manufacturer as no standards have been established.
    All,

    I just want to clarify something the only reason for my post on the rating thing was to let not only "dp" know but also "anyone" else who didn't know that there is a standard that is being used! As I am guessing from his post which I have quoted above that he was unaware of this!

    Now this is not being used by our cottage industry gear makers and we have a such tight nit community here that we pretty much know what each piece will do! With that said I think that if they were to use this I believe the reflection would end up showing in their pricing, which is great compared to the big name companies, when you compare quality/materials used/etc...

    As I said in the bottom of my earlier post my intention for my post is not in anyway to be thought as rude or brash or "anything"! Just a my thought and FYI!!

    Sorry for the thread drift!
    Formerly known as "Cranky Bear"....

    "yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift---thats why its called a present" - Master Oogway

    It's always best if your an early riser!

    I like hiking as it's like exercise!

    My Blog

  9. #19
    Senior Member d-p's Avatar
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    Temperature Ratings ...

    All,

    dp stands corrected. We had no idea about Europe's EN13537.
    (Don't we just love the Forum for information? )


    At dp's end, we use "seat of the pants" testing. Our engineering has indicated a moderately cold sleeper can stay asleep at 40* with our quilts with all the advantages of synthetics and our price points.

    I might add here, dp is now including a closed cell windshield sunshade to increase refelective temperatures with our under-quilt. Placing this between your hammock and under-quilt helps eliminate cold spots while increasing overall warmth retention.

    Plus, the sunshade can be used as a camp pad thus eliminating carrying a campchair at social hangs.

    Maybe our engineer can go to 35*? Don't know, as the weatherman isn't driving temps that low in our area now.



    FYI, I've personally purchased a lot of gear over the years that advertised certain temperature ratings and for the most part, few were accurate.

    Bought a European bag once rated at 40* and I was really cold at 50*. So many factors play into one's comfort, I'm not sure temperature ratings can ever be accurate every time.

    Thanks again tho for clarifying Europe's testing standard.



    Not sharing our vendor's actual product name is something we've chosen to do, due to our expensive searches for quality at low prices. (value)

    It's easy to purchase the best names at top prices if that is where you want to go.

    But again, Reliable - Ultralite - low cost, USA made gear is our focus.

    dp believes this niche will keep us as busy as we want to be as we have no intention of mass production or quiting our real job.

    Thanks to all our happy customers for believing our value.
    dp

    www.dphammockgear.com

  10. #20
    Senior Member NewtonGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-p View Post
    All,

    dp stands corrected. We had no idea about Europe's EN13537.
    (Don't we just love the Forum for information? )


    At dp's end, we use "seat of the pants" testing. Our engineering has indicated a moderately cold sleeper can stay asleep at 40* with our quilts with all the advantages of synthetics and our price points.

    I might add here, dp is now including a closed cell windshield sunshade to increase refelective temperatures with our under-quilt. Placing this between your hammock and under-quilt helps eliminate cold spots while increasing overall warmth retention.

    Plus, the sunshade can be used as a camp pad thus eliminating carrying a campchair at social hangs.

    Maybe our engineer can go to 35*? Don't know, as the weatherman isn't driving temps that low in our area now.



    FYI, I've personally purchased a lot of gear over the years that advertised certain temperature ratings and for the most part, few were accurate.

    Bought a European bag once rated at 40* and I was really cold at 50*. So many factors play into one's comfort, I'm not sure temperature ratings can ever be accurate every time.

    Thanks again tho for clarifying Europe's testing standard.



    Not sharing our vendor's actual product name is something we've chosen to do, due to our expensive searches for quality at low prices. (value)

    It's easy to purchase the best names at top prices if that is where you want to go.

    But again, Reliable - Ultralite - low cost, USA made gear is our focus.

    dp believes this niche will keep us as busy as we want to be as we have no intention of mass production or quiting our real job.

    Thanks to all our happy customers for believing our value.
    dp

    www.dphammockgear.com
    is the reflective pad included with the price?

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