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  1. #21
    mountaingoat's Avatar
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    marketing

    Quote Originally Posted by NCPatrick View Post
    We know all marketing is strictly true, right? (I'm kidding).

    We should demand that it be true, and the only way to do that is to be free to call people on their claims and let other consumers know. This isn't about this particular company, per se, but rather what I believe in general. Open discussion, which will inevitably include claims and accusations and upsets....so what? Stifling serves no one.

    my 2 cents

  2. #22
    WV's Avatar
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    I had a hammock fail once. It was made of Versatek (or Versatex?) - can't find it anywhere now. However that was because a small rip started near a sewing point, and I thought I could try it one more time before addressing the weak point. Nope - tore right in half.

    When I market hammocks, I think I will borrow one of my favorite advertising claims, found originally on a matchbook with an ad for a fortune teller, one Madame Zaza: "Helps you recover your lost nature!" I think that fits hammocks perfectly ... mine, anyway.

  3. #23
    Member blkx01's Avatar
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    too many variables

    Fabric weight/strength is dependent on numerous factors. Obviously there are the polyester vs. nylon fiber, but it goes way beyond that. Then there's yarn denier and weave strength/density. The type of loom it's woven on. Add in the type of nylon...it goes on & on. Nylon 66 30d 1.1 oz ripstop has much greater tear strength than regular nylon 30d 1.1 oz ripstop.
    I haven't even mentioned proprietary branded nylon fibers like Cordura brand. Anyone w/ a Sea to Summit stuff sack can attest to the Cordura fabric quality & strength. Even if you know nothing at all about synthetic fabric, if you hold that product in your hands you will know the quality of it.
    No. Any claim based on fabric weight alone is an uneducated & biased claim. It's he kind of thing that gives marketing its well deserved reputation. If such a claim is made, I say show us the tests to prove the claim, performed in a third party independent lab.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Cannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaSmurf View Post
    I've never yet seen a hammock that got "worn out" through normal use like you would see in say, a backpack. Maybe others have?
    Didn't Ed Speer report sleeping over some huge number (think it was at least two years) of consecutive nights in the same hammock? If memory serves, I don't think he reported any excessive wear. Could be wrong, but I don't think he ever took the hammock to failure. Safe to assume it was a Speer Hammock, but I have no idea, or memory, of what the fabric weight of that particular hammock was.
    Trust nobody!

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverpirate View Post
    Well are these claims true?

    Is 1.1 indeed just a durable and less stretchy than 1.7?

    If so, would the 2.0 fabric from Clarks be less stretchy and more durable than 1.7?

    I do not have ANY proof that 1.1 is as durable and less stretchy than 1.7 except for the flatness chart on the WB site that seems to indicte that.
    this question came up when this thread was in the other forum, and since i didn't get a chance to answer it there, i'll answer it here

    yes, what you say is true, lighter fabric is generally weaker and less durable than heavier fabric. [...]

    forget for a moment about all other factors that could effect the strength/durability of a hammock, lets assume the basic designs are the same.

    is it possible for a hammock made from fabric that is less than 2.0 osy to be much stronger and more durable than one made from 3.0 osy? why of course it is. a double layer of 1.7 makes for a hammock body that weighs 3.4osy, such a hammock (made from 1.7 fabric) would be stronger and more durable because the hammock body is heavier (3.4 vs 3.0)

    the weight of the fabric a hammock is made from is completely irrelevant because the only thing that matters in such a case would be the weight/yard of the hammock "body". give me 25yds of momentum 50 (0.7osy) and i could make a hammock that could hold 7000LBs if i used enough layers [...]
    Last edited by NCPatrick; 05-25-2011 at 12:31. Reason: [Enforced TOS compliance].

  6. #26
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverpirate View Post
    You aren't but others have. I have no problems discussing the pros and cons of any hammock. They all have them.
    FWIW, I sleep on the diagonal in my Clarks. I personally think you get a flatter lay with ANY material that way. I am still waiting on a manufaturer to make a camping hammock that I can lay 90 deg in.
    That is essentially a bridge hammock! But really, think about it. The main upward curve in a bridge hammock is left to right, side to side. There doesn't really have to be any curve on the ends, nor end caps even- you could get in and out on the ends. So, you might say you are laying 90*, at least to the curve of the hammock.

    I can lay 90* in my Safari, and pretty close in my HH UL Explorer and a Speer 8.5, but only if in full fetal of course.

    On the subject of diagonal vs mid-line, at least in a particular hammock, see this thread:
    http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...360#post474360

    EDIT: pardon, I just realized that post is way off topic
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  7. #27
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Stretch is more a function of material rather than weight per unit area of the same material.

    Polyester fabric has almost no stretch in comparison to nylon fabric of the same or nearly the same weight per unit area.

    Does Clark disclose the composition of their fabric??

    TeeDee has switched exclusively to Polyester and especially microfiber polyester when he can find it for his Bridges for this reason.

    Also, I don't have any lab tests, but our practical experiences with TeeDee's microfiber polyester Bridges would indicate also that the mosquitoes either cannot get through it or have a very hard time doing so.

  8. #28
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverpirate View Post
    You aren't but others have. I have no problems discussing the pros and cons of any hammock. They all have them.
    FWIW, I sleep on the diagonal in my Clarks. I personally think you get a flatter lay with ANY material that way. I am still waiting on a manufaturer to make a camping hammock that I can lay 90 deg in.
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    That is essentially a bridge hammock! But really, think about it. The main upward curve in a bridge hammock is left to right, side to side. There doesn't really have to be any curve on the ends, nor end caps even- you could get in and out on the ends. So, you might say you are laying 90*, at least to the curve of the hammock.

    I can lay 90* in my Safari, and pretty close in my HH UL Explorer and a Speer 8.5, but only if in full fetal of course.

    On the subject of diagonal vs mid-line, at least in a particular hammock, see this thread:
    http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...360#post474360

    EDIT: pardon, I just realized that post is way off topic
    TeeDee explained to me his way of thinking about the Bridge Hammock: Take a gathered end hammock that is big enough, with enough sag to lay at 90 deg. Now imagine a line in the fabric slightly above your body that is a parabola or catenary. Attach the suspension along that line and extending past the fabric and cut away all of the excess fabric above the line. Rotate the whole thing so that the head and feet point at the trees and you now have a Bridge Hammock. So in a Bridge you are laying on the 90 deg asym. And with all of the useless, excess fabric cut away you have a lighter hammock in the bargain.

  9. #29
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaSmurf View Post
    Durability: able to exist for a long time without significant deterioration; also : designed to be durable <durable goods>

    Strength: the quality or state of being strong : capacity for exertion or endurance : power to resist force : solidity, toughness : power of resisting attack : impregnability

    How many members here have actually "worn out" a hammock?

    How many members here have had a fabric "fail" by ripping or tearing?
    Ok going to start this off by saying this was with a very early style clark not the newer ones which I've seen but never used. I have had 1 and only 1 hammock wear out, it rotted out in about 6 months living in the tropics where it stayer 80-90%+ humidity pretty much constantly. During that time during a trip to a lower salivation where the types of mosquitoes that carry malaria (most types can't) using 100% deet every 2-3 hrs I only really gotten bitten 1 night. Through the bottom of the hammock and ended up coming down with malaria shortly after getting back to elevation. The hammock used was a clark. Note that per their site they say that their "mosquitoe proof" hammock started in 2008 vs there older ones and this was one of the older ones. Not trying to start a war/flaming session but yes putting information out (again this was the older/original style clarks not the new ones).

  10. #30
    in it for the naps oldgringo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post

    Until Clark can establish any actual history of these failures, they are blowing smoke.
    Scent Lok has been involved in some very expensive litigation over this very thing. Some people never learn.
    Dave

    http://www.uark.edu/misc/xtimber/rna/pattonsbluff.html

    It has always been my private conviction that any man who pits his intelligence against a fish and loses has it coming.
    John Steinbeck

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