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  1. #21
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodwolfy View Post
    Good info! Does permethrin work on mosquitos too? What about black flies? Out here in the Cascades, we get swarms of black flies on the trails by mid summer. They are almost worse than the mosquitos.

    I like what you guys are explaining, I was just worried that if I soak my WBBBs in it, then lay in it, it will migrate into my bloodstream. I keep hearing about how all the insecticides that we use in our food production system are causing cancers. Your thoughts?
    No doubt NOTHING is perfectly safe. It is for sure that tick and mossie bites are not safe, which is a worse worry than the sheer unpleasantness of the little beasts.

    But to put risk on a relative basis, Permethrin 1% shampoo is sold over the counter for lice infestation, and used for children. Elimite is prescription 5% Permethrin creme that is left in the skin for 14 hours.

    The concentration to be sprayed on your clothing is 0.5%. It is supposed to bind tightly to the clothing after drying. It does not even wash out easily. I would not be surprised if none ever actually gets off of your clothes and onto your skin. But even if it did, it would be something way less than 0.5% actually making it to your skin, I would guess.

    So the risk of all of that needs to be balanced against the risk of endless applications of DEET to the skin, plus still maybe getting some bites on a place that you missed.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  2. #22
    beep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    No doubt NOTHING is perfectly safe. It is for sure that tick and mossie bites are not safe, which is a worse worry than the sheer unpleasantness of the little beasts.

    But to put risk on a relative basis, Permethrin 1% shampoo is sold over the counter for lice infestation, and used for children. Elimite is prescription 5% Permethrin creme that is left in the skin for 14 hours.

    The concentration to be sprayed on your clothing is 0.5%. It is supposed to bind tightly to the clothing after drying. It does not even wash out easily. I would not be surprised if none ever actually gets off of your clothes and onto your skin. But even if it did, it would be something way less than 0.5% actually making it to your skin, I would guess.

    So the risk of all of that needs to be balanced against the risk of endless applications of DEET to the skin, plus still maybe getting some bites on a place that you missed.
    Well said, BillyBob.

    For those who are still on the fence, after doing your research into the risks and benefits, if the idea of using Permethrin bothers you then don't use it.

    I worry more about using DEET than I do about Permethrin.
    "The more I carry the happier I am in camp; the less I carry the happier I am getting there" - Sgt. Rock

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by beep View Post
    Well said, BillyBob.

    For those who are still on the fence, after doing your research into the risks and benefits, if the idea of using Permethrin bothers you then don't use it.

    I worry more about using DEET than I do about Permethrin.
    Yea, and that's why all the questions. I've heard way worse about deet.

    So, do you guys get a little spray bottle and scrunchy it on the hammock and then seal it in a garbage bag for a couple of days? Or what's the best application procedure?

  4. #24
    Needs more Hang time Catavarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodwolfy View Post
    Good info! Does permethrin work on mosquitos too? What about black flies? Out here in the Cascades, we get swarms of black flies on the trails by mid summer. They are almost worse than the mosquitos.

    I like what you guys are explaining, I was just worried that if I soak my WBBBs in it, then lay in it, it will migrate into my bloodstream. I keep hearing about how all the insecticides that we use in our food production system are causing cancers. Your thoughts?
    Well in this day and age breathing "fresh" air can cause cancer.

    But more seriously. The truth is, I doubt there has been any real scientific study (although I haven't searched for it) as to the affects of long term exposure to permethrin on the human body.

    Note: I am NOT a Chemical Engineer, Physiologist, nor a Physician. So take my thoughts for what you will. So long as you don't take it as gospel, I have no desire to be a Saint.

    My guess is that because the chemical is bonding directly to the fibers of the material and not just a spray on coating (think Silnylon vs DWR) that leaching or flaking off of those chemicals is extremely minor if at all.

    According to what I've read permethrin breaks down in sun light and in air. Meaning it reaches a inert state. It does not appear to be easily dilutable once the binding process has occurred. As it takes several washes to remove the permethrin from the material using aggitation and a disolvent of some sort (whether soap or detergent, I'll leave that debate for another thread) wearing the material while in the rain, or simply sweating isn't likely to promote any leaching process occurring.

    So enough of my dissertation. While some may praise permethrin's mystical bug zapping powers and claim it is completely safe, remember the same was thought of DDT at one time as well. Not saying that permethrin is next big thing to cause the extinction of the North American Fox Squirrel, we simply don't truly know long term affects of most chemicals on the market until the damage has already been done. Do the research. Talk with others who have experience using the chemical. And make a judgement call.

    Personally, I'm rarely bothered enough by bugs to use any topical treatment on myself or my gear. Although a nice battery operated bug zapper provides as much entertainment in the woods as at home.
    *Heaven best have trees, because I plan to lounge for eternity.

    Good judgement is the result of experience and experience the result of bad judgement. - Mark Twain

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