First Trip: Lessons Learned

[MAD777]

Great post, Stefprez! Both entertaining and informative.
Backpacking is definitely a "learn by doing" pursuit. After many years I am still pursuing better techniques, skills and equipment - all part of the fun of doing this stuff.

Ideally, you want your bear bag line to be a flat braid rather than round. It needs to be of sufficient diameter (about 2.5mm) to not "saw" into the limb. Many lines are sheathed with a polyester sheath intended to make knots hold better due to higher friction - not what you want in a bear line. It needs to be as slick as possible.

BTW, here is the bear bag line I use. I love it and it hasn't caused me any problems.
http://www.antigravitygear.com/antig...-725-line.html

[R3l@x]

Great post, Stefprez! Both entertaining and informative.
Backpacking is definitely a "learn by doing" pursuit. After many years I am still pursuing better techniques, skills and equipment - all part of the fun of doing this stuff.

Ideally, you want your bear bag line to be a flat braid rather than round. It needs to be of sufficient diameter (about 2.5mm) to not "saw" into the limb. Many lines are sheathed with a polyester sheath intended to make knots hold better due to higher friction - not what you want in a bear line. It needs to be as slick as possible.

BTW, here is the bear bag line I use. I love it and it hasn't caused me any problems.
http://www.antigravitygear.com/antig...-725-line.html

+1 on using the correct line. Dynaglide works well also. It's made for this specific purpose.
http://www.neropes.com/product.aspx?...D&lid=3&pid=94
AHE makes a great bearbag system using Lash-it and sells the Dynaglide by the foot.

Permethrin is great stuff. Just wanted to throw out that until it dries it is dangerous to cats and fish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin

-Sub mistake B...Thank you! Every time I read this I get another laugh I hope your next trip is more enjoyable.

[BillyBob58]

I'll have to try that Picaridin stuff. Mixed reports around the web, some saying better, some saying same, some saying worse than DEET. At this point, DEET ain't doing me much, so might as well give it a shot! Also, have you ever seen the Don't Bite Me patches? .......

I have not yet seen the patches.

Keep in mind about the Picaridin: I think the Picaridin is much more pleasant to use than the DEET, and you can even put it on you clothes for some short time protection if you want. And as far as I can tell, it works ~ as well as DEET, at least the lower % of DEET (15-40%), the only kind I am willing to use. BUT, I have mostly used Picaridin with Permethrin treated clothes, and that is what my great results are based on. Just like yesterday: wading into the thick bushes around my house with a hedge trimmer for my honey do list. With treated shorts/socks/tee shirt/hat. Picaridin only for remaining exposed skin. Today, not a hint of a bite.

One day I worked in the yard for several hours with Picaridin only. I later noticed an itchy bite, on a finger that I missed, or I might have washed my hands before I finished work. So far anyway, never a bite anywhere when I have use the combo.

Be sure to get 15-20% Picaridin if you can find it. Walmart has some tiny containers of 20% for packing. I get 15% in larger cans at WM and sometimes Lowe's. There is some 5 and 7%out there, but def get the higher %.

[3club]

I hate to use any bug spray, so they have to be pretty bad before I'll break it out. On my last trip, I had such a day. I couldn't stop to take a picture without them swarming my knuckles. I broke out the picaradin, and they never bothered me again.

Just my experience. I know others who say picaradin doesn't work at all, but it works for me.

I don't think there's much doubt that DEET is effective, but it has three major drawbacks in my book: 1.) toxic. You absorb it through your skin and pee it out later. That can't be good. 2.) I don't like the slimy feel. 3.) DEET is usually not good on synthetic fabrics. It can dissolve nylon and etch the face of your watch/phone/etc.

Picaradin is supposed to be non-toxic, even though the federalis make them use the same warning labels as DEET. I like the smell, and once it dries, it's not slimy. And it's safe on synthetics.

[nothermark]

Sounds like an interesting trip. It's good to get some of the newbie stuff done in private. ;-) OTOH have you looked into the ADK? The local chapter is large so it has a variety of things happening. New folks were always welcome when I was involved, looks like they still are. Here is a place to start http://www.gvc-adk.org/outings.

[Miguel]

I too hike on the FLT and have often found it difficult to find appropriate bear bag hanging limbs. It's why I switched to the Ursack (sp) Bear bag. You simply tie it to a tree and forget about it. I also use the oder proof bags inside the Ursack for trash etc.

So far so good...even in the Shenedoahs which I understand has the highest bear population in the USA.

Miguel

[3club]

I hate to use any bug spray, so they have to be pretty bad before I'll break it out. On my last trip, I had such a day. I couldn't stop to take a picture without them swarming my knuckles. I broke out the picaradin, and they never bothered me again.

Just my experience. I know others who say picaradin doesn't work at all, but it works for me.

I don't think there's much doubt that DEET is effective, but it has three major drawbacks in my book: 1.) toxic. You absorb it through your skin and pee it out later. That can't be good. 2.) I don't like the slimy feel. 3.) DEET is usually not good on synthetic fabrics. It can dissolve nylon and etch the face of your watch/phone/etc.

Picaradin is supposed to be non-toxic, even though the federalis make them use the same warning labels as DEET. I like the smell, and once it dries, it's not slimy. And it's safe on synthetics.

[stefprez]

Oh boy. Here we go...

I've no experience with lash-it or zing-it, maybe they're they same kind of thing, but I can absolutely vouch for this stuff.

PS: Tie the tag (loose) end to a belt loop or your ankle before you throw your weight; I've had an inadvertent birdsnest go whizzing by me up the tree as the weight comes sliding down the other side.

Looks really similar, if not identical, to Fling-It. Definitely seems like it'd work. Thanks!

I use Ultrathon. It is a Deet based product suspended in a lotion so the application of it is quite easy to cover all your skin, plus it last much longer. 3M developed ultrathon for the military. In fact the first version I ever had came in the olive drab squeeze tube. You can get both the permethrin treatment and Ultrathon at Gander Mt on Jefferson Rd.

Interesting... I'll have to run up there and make a stop! Not far from me at all. Thanks!

Great post, Stefprez! Both entertaining and informative.
Backpacking is definitely a "learn by doing" pursuit. After many years I am still pursuing better techniques, skills and equipment - all part of the fun of doing this stuff.

Ideally, you want your bear bag line to be a flat braid rather than round. It needs to be of sufficient diameter (about 2.5mm) to not "saw" into the limb. Many lines are sheathed with a polyester sheath intended to make knots hold better due to higher friction - not what you want in a bear line. It needs to be as slick as possible.

Thanks! And it definitely is. That's one of the things I love about it too! It just isn't easy on the wallet... Anyways, what do you think of the Target Line that Backwoods Daydreamer/DIY Gear Supply carries? http://www.diygearsupply.com/cgi-bin/shelf.cgi?numb=52 If it'll work, great, cause it's about half the cost of Zing-It and Fling-It, or any other similar dyneema/spectra products.

-Sub mistake B...Thank you! Every time I read this I get another laugh I hope your next trip is more enjoyable.

Trust me, when I look back on it, I laugh too. Wrecking ball with a vengeance, backpacker style. I'm just glad it didn't have better aim! I would have been down and for the count, crawling over to my bag with my cell phone in it... (In a high pitched voice, between sobs) "911? Please... help... me..."

I have not yet seen the patches.

Keep in mind about the Picaridin: I think the Picaridin is much more pleasant to use than the DEET, and you can even put it on you clothes for some short time protection if you want. And as far as I can tell, it works ~ as well as DEET, at least the lower % of DEET (15-40%), the only kind I am willing to use. BUT, I have mostly used Picaridin with Permethrin treated clothes, and that is what my great results are based on. Just like yesterday: wading into the thick bushes with around my house with a hedge trimmer for my honey do list. With treated shorts/socks/tee shirt/hat. Picaridin only for remaining exposed skin. Today, not a hint of a bite.

One day I worked in the yard for several hours with Picaridin only. I later noticed an itchy bite, on a finger that I missed, or I might have washed my hands before I finished work. So far anyway, never a bite anywhere when I have use the combo.

Be sure to get 15-20% Picaridin if you can find it. Walmart has some tiny containers of 20% for packing. I get 15% in larger cans at WM and sometimes Lowe's. There is some 5 and 7%out there, but def get the higher %.

I'll definitely track down the stronger stuff. Thanks for the input! Hell, between a patch, permethrin treated clothing, and some Picaridin, I think I'd be ready for the swamps!

I don't think there's much doubt that DEET is effective, but it has three major drawbacks in my book: 1.) toxic. You absorb it through your skin and pee it out later. That can't be good. 2.) I don't like the slimy feel. 3.) DEET is usually not good on synthetic fabrics. It can dissolve nylon and etch the face of your watch/phone/etc.

Picaradin is supposed to be non-toxic, even though the federalis make them use the same warning labels as DEET. I like the smell, and once it dries, it's not slimy. And it's safe on synthetics.

Yeah, #3 is the one that really scares me. I don't like spraying the equivalent of battery acid (to synthetics at least) all over the place... Looking forward to trying Picaradin!

Sounds like an interesting trip. It's good to get some of the newbie stuff done in private. ;-) OTOH have you looked into the ADK? The local chapter is large so it has a variety of things happening. New folks were always welcome when I was involved, looks like they still are. Here is a place to start http://www.gvc-adk.org/outings.

Yeah, actually up at EMS I did get a recommendation to check them out! I've shot them an email, but haven't heard back yet. Thanks though!

I too hike on the FLT and have often found it difficult to find appropriate bear bag hanging limbs. It's why I switched to the Ursack (sp) Bear bag. You simply tie it to a tree and forget about it. I also use the oder proof bags inside the Ursack for trash etc.

So far so good...even in the Shenedoahs which I understand has the highest bear population in the USA.

Miguel

They are looking all the more tempting... Thanks for the input!