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  1. #111
    Senior Member AppalachianHammock's Avatar
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    I think if you want to sell to "the average buyer" you need to include the straps at the $80 price point. Otherwise this "lounging in the park" person will buy the eno for $54 and pay 20 for the straps, rather then paying 80 for the hammock then another 30 for the straps. To the average person, Paying more for just a hammock then you would for hammock and straps would just be stupid.

  2. #112
    Senior Member sswens's Avatar
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    Im in For the cause and will use it as a lounger and recreation Hammock if i dont like it im going give it to someone who will.

  3. #113
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    What causes is the company supporting with this business model?


    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
    - Mark Twain
    I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order.
    - John Burroughs

  4. #114
    canoebie's Avatar
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    After reading this thread, I really appreciate that the company is not expressing "mission drift" as a "dash for cash." I respect folks that develop a business plan, discuss it, embellish on the details, respectfully debate, but don't cave easily when so much thinking has gone into the mission and purpose.

    I also, as Opie expressed, appreciate the philanthropic efforts as part of that mission. Business is often involved in efforts to influence and change the world. Too often it is not positive.

    So, I support the effort, will probably buy one, and if I am unhappy with how I spent my $80, I have been unhappy before, will be again, and life goes on.

    OTOH, I may be thrilled, supportive of some folks with insight, make a difference in the world, lie back in my hammock with a big smile and close my eyes filled with contentment. Seems a well calculated gamble to me.
    Revolution is about the need to re-evolve political, economic and social justice and power back into the hands of the people, preferably through legislation and policies that make human sense. That's what revolution is about. Revolution is not about shootouts.

    Bobby Seale


    http://www.riverjourneys.org

  5. #115
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    Joel,
    A couple more questions.
    I have not supported a project through kickstarter. What is the return policy on the kammock, should the product not meet my expectation?
    Your video and site show kammocks in orange with grey edging, grey with orange edging, and green. Which color is the kickstarter kammock? Similarly, the python straps are red or are they available in other colors?
    Finally, if I understand correctly, the charitable mission outlined does not include profits from kammocks sold during your kickstarter program?

    I'm not sure I'm completely sold, but my sons have been saying they wanted to replace their beds with hammocks...

  6. #116
    New Member the_watch_guy's Avatar
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    When are they going to be shipped out ?? After Sept 1st ?

  7. #117
    Senior Member Mustardman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoelMalone View Post
    We desire to have the most innovative products in the hammock camping industry and they will be priced accordingly.
    So I guess after wading through this long thread, with some negative opinions, some positive ones, and a few dubious claims, this is where I will throw my two cents in.

    I am really racking my brain to figure out what is "most innovative in the industry" about a gathered end hammock made from (claimed) higher-end materials.

    I think innovation, and I think Bridge hammocks, or the new Exped sideways hammocks, the bat hammocks, the warbonnet, etc. I've seen you make the claim of superiority a few times due to the materials you've chosen to use, and while that slightly irks me, I chose not to say anything. Claiming that this, which is essentially a slightly beefed up ENO or Trek Light, is the most innovative product on the market, however, tows the thin line between absurd and offensive.

    Not to be too harsh (ok, well maybe a bit...), but it's a standard gathered end hammock. It might be a heck of a gathered end hammock, but it isn't innovative. Get over yourself.


    I couldn't care less about the price - I overpay for perceived quality all the time. If you use higher end materials, you get to charge more. No issues with that whatsoever. But the innovation claims are where my eyes rolled so hard I could see the top of my head.
    Last edited by Mustardman; 07-23-2011 at 19:43. Reason: misspoke - it was Exped that has the new sideways hammock

  8. #118
    New Member WeTommyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejoha View Post

    You know what I'd love to see? A hammock with a breathable, water"proof" shell (ala GORTEX, eVent, etc.) constructed as a bivvy with no need for a separate rain fly and accommodation for insulation (maybe a pocket system like the Clark Jungle Hammock), all for under 20 oz. I'd pay for that!
    Hey Hey, I'm with you on that one!

  9. #119
    Member SinisterMinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    Get over yourself.
    Not so much as harsh, as just plain rude. There is a difference between the desire to havethe most innovative product on the market and claiming to be the most innovative product on the market. Semantics, yes, but I don't know anyone who would bring an item to market and claim they have the desire to have the most mediocre product in the industry.

    Joel's statement tells me they aren't out to make Wallyworld discount product and are willing to stand behind it. Let's give them the chance to do so.

    Joel has answered the questions and criticism with grace. I think he's earned the right to a little respect.
    Dutch: Hammock is probably more weight but who wants to lay on the ground? I pee on the ground.

  10. #120
    DaleW's Avatar
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    Y'know, I read through a good part of this thread and thought about it for a couple days. I think it is just a poor match of presentation and the demographics of the buyers here. If this was a Dot Com in Palo Alto, the presentation would make sense, but we are mostly outdoorsmen and backpackers.

    My gut feeling is that this audience wants their deals straight and simple. I know I do. "We have this product, it does this and that, it is better because, it costs this much and you can buy it here and there."

    Plainly put, "What we have here is a failure to communicate." What we see most in the presentation is young entrepreneurs in modern indoor environments and not much product. The market is mostly 18-55 year old middle class males who like to go camping and sleep outdoors. These are hands-on people who want results, not talk and vapor ware. I think it is obvious that there is a disconnect between the suppliers and the market. They aren't speaking the same language and in fact they live in very different worlds. You have to fix that to succeed in this market.

    My $0.02.

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