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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Youngblood View Post
    I got that from Ray Jardine's book, but you need stakes with smooth round shafts for that to work.
    i have very recently been using a slippery clove hitch on my msr groundhogs, seems to work, didn't work on the smc snow stakes which i tried yesterday.

    you need it to be slippery on the groundhog b/c they have those hook type heads on them and you could not slide it off once it sets.

    how much return force do you guess your shock cord is pulling on each pull tab with?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    how much return force do you guess your shock cord is pulling on each pull tab with?
    Brandon... I looked around in my old tackle boxes but don't have my decades old spring based fish scale anymore, I guess my son claimed that.

    They don't have very much force, they are doubled up 3/32" or 1/8" shockcord that have roughly 100% maximum stretch. Of course the force will depend on the percentage stretch, but just attaching them to available weights I have setting around I would guess they would be in the 2.5 to 5 pound range for 50 to 100% stretch.
    Youngblood AT2000

  3. #23
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Youngblood - two questions on your shock cord use:

    1. parallel guy line cord - you run the guy line cord parallel to the shock cord. Any particular reason for this? I have always just formed a loop of the shock cord with the loop through the tarp tie out and then tie the guy line cord to the shock cord loop. I use the shock cord for two purposes:
      1. tensioner - to keep tension on the tarp as the nylon stretches when wet, and
      2. shock absorber - as a shock absorber when a strong gust hits the tarp.

      With the guy line running parallel to the shock cord and with the shock cord pulled out to its maximum, you have nothing left to absorb any shocks from strong gusts. Then either the tarp may tear or the cord may break if the gust is really strong enough. I guess this is why I like the Lash-It dyneema and strong guy line better and they work better for me. I use the shock cord to absorb the shock instead of the tarp. For this reason I never pull the shaock cord out to it's maximum, but always leave about half of it's extension for use as a shock absorber.
    2. tarp tie out - you seem to suggest using the guy line loop through the tarp tie out for securing the tarp close to the ground. I've always just used the tie out itself for this. Any particular reason you like the guy line loop instead?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiredFeet View Post
    Youngblood - two questions on your shock cord use:

    1. parallel guy line cord - you run the guy line cord parallel to the shock cord. Any particular reason for this? I have always just formed a loop of the shock cord with the loop through the tarp tie out and then tie the guy line cord to the shock cord loop. I use the shock cord for two purposes:
      1. tensioner - to keep tension on the tarp as the nylon stretches when wet, and
      2. shock absorber - as a shock absorber when a strong gust hits the tarp.

      With the guy line running parallel to the shock cord and with the shock cord pulled out to its maximum, you have nothing left to absorb any shocks from strong gusts. Then either the tarp may tear or the cord may break if the gust is really strong enough. I guess this is why I like the Lash-It dyneema and strong guy line better and they work better for me. I use the shock cord to absorb the shock instead of the tarp. For this reason I never pull the shaock cord out to it's maximum, but always leave about half of it's extension for use as a shock absorber.
    2. tarp tie out - you seem to suggest using the guy line loop through the tarp tie out for securing the tarp close to the ground. I've always just used the tie out itself for this. Any particular reason you like the guy line loop instead?
    1- When you start out with the shock cord not pulled to its maximum you can get a gust of wind ridding on top of sustained winds. The sustained wind can cause the shock cord to be pulled out to its maximum when the gust comes along. The biggest danger is when a gust hits a loose tarp without the dampening effects of shock cord, a taut tarp isn't as likely to fail from gusts. Think about trying to snap thread with your hands... you don't pull suddenly on taut thread, you do it with loose thread.

    I pull the tarp taut to start with to take out as much of the initial stretch of the silnylon as I can so I don't have as much stretch to take up overnight.

    2- Doesn't make any difference if the tie out is big enough.
    Youngblood AT2000

  5. #25
    tf, i don't know about youngblood, but it seems to me that by leaving something between the stake and the tarp, you can tighten if need be, if you take the corner straight to the stake, you have to reposition the stake to tighten.

    i have set up my superfly prototype in high wind a couple times, i don't have regular corner pull tabs, but it seems like the tarp itself (especially a large one like a winter tarp) has quite a bit of stretch and shock absorption in the fabric itself, especially when the wind hits it broadside, almost too much, the wind can push the sides in far enough to touch an un occupied hammock big gusts it seems, and i had the corners cranked tight with no tensioners, if my corners were dynamic (tensioners) the wind would push the sides in even farther, this may be why yb puts them under full stretch to begin with, this way they only act to take up slack as the tarp stretches, but not to absorb high gusts, and that dia of shock cord would probably still fail before the tie out ripped, offering some security for extremely hard gusts.

    i have found high wind to be a problem with a large tarp like this, cannibal has had to resort to a grip clip. i have tried several options.

    first, i ran what i called frame lines under the tarp. basically i have a line attached from corner stake to ridge pulltab on each end, then i run line between themwhich i crank tight with a truckers hitch, this creates a tight frame which supports the side of the tarp in high wind. the only problem is, it takes really solid stakes to crank it tight, possibly even 4 more than the 4 i use for the tarp (and these are grounghogs, which are already beefy stakes) if the ground isn't good, setup may be a problem, it does take longer than using panel pull tabs, but actually lessens the force on the tarp in high winds, a panel pull tab does not, and the panel pull tab itself might be the weak link in the system, on my tarp anyways. the panel pull tabs did keep the tarp alot more roomy than the frame lines did, but the frame lines seemed to provide just enough support for the side as the panel pull outs i considered quite roomy. i'll post pics of both in a few mins.

    has anyone else done anything different to support the side of a steeply pitched large tarp inj high wind?
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    Last edited by warbonnetguy; 03-22-2008 at 12:01.

  6. #26
    Hooch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youngblood View Post
    Jay,

    Do you know how to put shock cord on the side pullouts and guylines? Those help a lot with silnylon tarps, especially large ones.
    Not yet, I've been using a Figure 9 onthe end of the loops on my MSR Groundhogs. That's worked well for me thus far. I've got some shock cord I picked up for something else sitting around here somewhere, so I very well may give that a go. In all fairness, the SWT is going to by my first sil tarp, so I'm sure it'll take a little getting used to. Do Ed's No-Tangle guidelines work well with the shock cord for this method? If I have a nice day this week after the tarp gets here, I'll take it to a park one day, set it up and try to tie the shock cord in. Thanks Youngblood, HC and everyone else for your advice.

    Edit: I got an e-mail confirmation a little bit ago, my SWT is shipped and on it's way from the Motherland!
    Last edited by Hooch; 03-22-2008 at 16:33.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooch View Post
    Do Ed's No-Tangle guidelines work well with the shock cord for this method?
    Yes, they work fine for that.
    Youngblood AT2000

  8. #28
    Hooch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youngblood View Post
    Yes, they work fine for that.
    Thanks Youngblood, I'll look forward to getting the tarp in a day or 2 and making the mod some time this week. I've seen pics of how to do it, and it doesn't look too difficult at all. I just realized that I have to go out and buy 2 more Groundhogs now, I forgot that the SWT has 8 side tie outs. This calls for a trip to the outiftters!

  9. #29
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    It's here!

    It's here! My Speer Winter Tarp has arrived! Yay! Ed, as always, is a great guy and a great person to business with. He shipped my tarp on Saturday and it got here today. I'm going to try and set it up today or tomorrow for pics. I absolutely can't wait to break this baby out and use it at Red River Gorge this weekend. Way awesome, I'm so excited (And I just can't hide it. )!

  10. #30
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    Jealous of your RRG trip. Have a blast (I know you will). Treat your water!


    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
    - Mark Twain
    I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order.
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