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  1. #11
    Senior Member G.L.P.'s Avatar
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    Very nice SGT ..... this should be a sticky for sure
    It puts the Underquilt on it's hammock ... It does this whenever it gets cold

  2. #12
    WV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLRider View Post
    Thank you, Sgt. Rock. I've been on the fence about making my own cuben drybags, and this definitely helped clear things up for me in several areas.

    A question, though: does the tape work with materials other than cuben (I know you taped the tie-outs with patches, but I'm unsure whether the tape was adhering to the 550 cord or to the cuben patches or both)? For example, Neoprene and nylon? Or do I need to find another type of adhesive and/or sew and then glue patches over the sewn parts?

    Also, thank you for your website; it was what originally got me to try hammock camping!
    3M makes many different adhesives for different materials and applications. Search for their technical manuals and spec sheets to see what works with what. They describe materials with varying degrees of "surface energy". Generally it's easier to bond to high surface energy materials (like aluminum). Polyester has moderately low surface energy, but bonding is improved by using their Primer 94. Good luck. There's a lot of material out there, but it's not easy to track down. Think of it as an exercise that will dramatically improve your search skills. Perseverance furthers.

  3. #13
    Senior Member SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    Great job. There is more good information on working with cuben in this video than any other source I can think of, by far. I like the way you did your tie outs. I'm still experimenting with mine, and I may well adopt your technique. Thanks!
    No problem. I got quite a bit of information from your tie out points experiment. I don't think my tie outs are perfect, but they work. What I think would work better is a wider strip of nylon sewn on with a wider stitching area to distribute the stress across a wider point under the patch. Maybe a 1/2" wide ribbon with both ends sewn under the patch area.
    You're fortunate to have an assistant. I don't have that luxury, so I've had to find another way to do the long seams. What has worked best is to lay a 4' x 8' piece of masonite on the floor and put a 4' x 4' piece next to it, so I have a work surface 12' long. Then I put one half of the tarp down and pull it taut, fastening it at each end with weights and pieces of painters' tape. I use a long strip of blue painters' tape to mask the edge of the 1" edge that will be bonded, so I can apply the Primer 94 with a small paint brush. The throw-away foam brushes work fine. Then I apply the 9460 VHB tape to the primed area. Because the cuben is held flat, one person can do this quite easily. Then I remove the blue masking tape. Next, I prime a 1" strip on the other half of the tarp in a similar fashion. Then I put the primed edge of the second tarp half over the taped edge of the first half and fasten it in place with weights and tape at each end. The backing paper is still on the VHB tape, but everything is lined up for bonding. Then I carefully start peeling the backing paper off at one end, but instead of pulling it straight back in line with the edge, I pull it at an angle to one side, so I'm pulling it out from between the two sheets of cuben, which are already in contact. To get it started you need to move the weights and lift one corner of the top piece. Once a 3" end of the backing paper is free, you can roll the bond and put the weight back. Then roll the entire seam as you pull the backing out, with the roller following an inch behind the backing as it comes off. If I did have an assistant, I think I would still use this method, with the assistant pulling the backing paper, so I'd have two hands to hold the cuben down ahead of the bonding area and roll it tight immediately after. I use 1" wide tape. A single backing strip is easier to pull than two, but it can be done. It's possible to prepare the cuben by trimming the edge with a soldering iron along a metal straightedge just before applying the primer, but using a cutting mat and rolling cutter is just as easy. I have thought about a cutting mat that's 6" wide and 12' long, but I don't do enough of this stuff to justify the expense. (Besides, they don't exist.)
    I do count myself lucky. I think if we did this a lot we would have a better system. As I was finishing up making the patches, I realized having a way to hold the cuben material down while I was working would have been a good thing. With the mat I was using, I was thinking I could have used some binder clips or something to fasten it to the mat. I did work out having the material turned over into place and then pulling the tape backing out when doing the hems - that worked great and it sounds like what you do as well. If I did a bunch of these I would definitely get some 1" wide tape for doing the patches and the ridge.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perkolady View Post
    Thanks for doing this video, SGT Rock! I was wondering about this project and that tape, but hadn't seen anything about it yet. WOW! What a project!
    I wouldn't have ever made a video because once I made mine and figured out how I was going to do it, well I had already done it and there was no record nor a reason to make a tarp just to make a record of the process. But since a friend wanted me to make him a BIG version of my SUL tarp, I decided it was the perfect time to document the process. Big thanks to my friend Rick to whom I delivered the tarp to this morning.
    Quote Originally Posted by FLRider View Post
    Thank you, Sgt. Rock. I've been on the fence about making my own cuben drybags, and this definitely helped clear things up for me in several areas.

    A question, though: does the tape work with materials other than cuben (I know you taped the tie-outs with patches, but I'm unsure whether the tape was adhering to the 550 cord or to the cuben patches or both)? For example, Neoprene and nylon? Or do I need to find another type of adhesive and/or sew and then glue patches over the sewn parts?

    Also, thank you for your website; it was what originally got me to try hammock camping!
    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    3M makes many different adhesives for different materials and applications. Search for their technical manuals and spec sheets to see what works with what. They describe materials with varying degrees of "surface energy". Generally it's easier to bond to high surface energy materials (like aluminum). Polyester has moderately low surface energy, but bonding is improved by using their Primer 94. Good luck. There's a lot of material out there, but it's not easy to track down. Think of it as an exercise that will dramatically improve your search skills. Perseverance furthers.
    What he said.

    Something else I was thinking of when after I had already seam sealed the tie outs and then taped over them: What if I put enough seam seal on them to create a good surface for the cuben and 3M tape to bond too? I think that maybe if I were to do it again I would use 1/2" wide ribbon instead of para cord, and I would cover them with enough seam seal to help bond them to the patches.
    NO SNIVELING!
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  5. #15
    Senior Member SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnya42 View Post
    This should be sticky'ed to this page...Great job with the instructions Sgt Rock!

    Cuben is just amazing!

    VInce
    Not to blow my own horn, but I agree. When I was thinking about doing my first tarp I tried for weeks to find some good instructions on working with the stuff. I almost chickened out on trying because I couldn't find much solid on working with cuben fiber. WV's thread about cuben pull-outs was about the best piece of information I could find about working with it at the time.
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  6. #16
    GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
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    I expect a sticky is coming, I will certainly suggest so to the mods.

    Was happy to see this, I've been working with Cuben and Sgt Rock does a great job of pointing out the things to which you must be attentive.

    great job Sgt
    Grizz
    (alias ProfessorHammock on youtube)

  7. #17
    Senior Member SGT Rock's Avatar
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    The thing almost didn't happen. The camera I used did something different this time and the files wouldn't edit. I had to play with about three different programs trying things like file conversions and such until I got them to where the editor would recognize them and use them. It was totally baffling since I didn't change anything I normally did, and the .avi files normally open just fine. If I hadn't figured out a solution yesterday afternoon I was about to scrap trying to make a youtube video altogether.
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  8. #18
    MAD777's Avatar
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    I vote for STICKY, STICKY, STICKY...
    Oops, I voted 3 times
    Mike
    "Life is a Project!"

  9. #19
    WV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post
    Something else I was thinking of when after I had already seam sealed the tie outs and then taped over them: What if I put enough seam seal on them to create a good surface for the cuben and 3M tape to bond too? I think that maybe if I were to do it again I would use 1/2" wide ribbon instead of para cord, and I would cover them with enough seam seal to help bond them to the patches.
    My next round of tie-out testing will have 1/2" polypropylene straps sewn to DP's "Triastic" fabric, which is a polyester spinnaker cloth with a polyester coating. Then I'll bond the Triastic to cuben and see how much force it takes to cause failure and where it breaks.
    Here's a picture of my test cuben, 15" x 15" bonded to a piece of aluminum on one edge so I can pull it evenly across the whole width. Below it is the 2" x 2" square of Triastic with the strap sewn to it.

    Here is the Triastic patch bonded to the cuben with 3M 9460 adhesive transfer tape (plus Primer), ready for the pull test. I have already tested the Triastic-to-cuben connection, both sewn and with 9460 tape, and I know that both methods of connecting them are strong enough. What I expect to learn is where the cuben material will tear and how much force it takes to tear it. From Sgt. Rock's video, I see I could further strengthen the connection by adding a layer of cuben over the Triastic patch, and I may do that in the future because it would provide a way of tapering the reinforcing patch (if the cuben added was bigger than the Triastic). Earlier pull tests have shown that a strong reinforcing patch on cuben will fail right at the edge of the patch. Tapering may help spread the force over a larger area, resulting in a stronger connection.

    I'll post test results in this thread, with a link to my earlier tests. As this one builds on what we learned earlier, it make sense to sticky this thread, adding new information as it appears.

  10. #20
    Senior Member SGT Rock's Avatar
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    WV,

    It looks like a good solution. What I have come to believe is if you spread the ends out so they lay side by side instead of directly top and bottom from each other, that this would spread the force over a greater area. I need to make an example of what I am thinking of to illustrate this.
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