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  1. #11
    Senior Member JBizzle's Avatar
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    Why are most people trying to eliminate the strap suspension but are still using a strap around the tree? So now instead of just strap to descender rings, you are wrapping around a tree multiple times and attaching a whoopie? How is that lighter than a strap suspension? Seems like you are still carrying an undetermined length of tree straps to get around various tree girths.

    So instead of 2 decender rings some are using a carabiner to attach their whoopies? I guess something like the dutch biner is considerably lighter than most descender rings. Is this the only reason most are switching to whoopie/strap?

    I'm considering making a tree hugger out of amsteel and using a dutch biner to my whoopie. What do you think? Eliminating the strap should eliminate 2-4oz.

    I've never noticed tree damage from a hammock rope suspension tied directly around the tree before, so I figure an ultra light tree hugger out of amsteel would work.
    Last edited by JBizzle; 09-27-2011 at 09:58.
    JBizzle
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    Missouri Backpacking and Hiking

  2. #12
    Senior Member Tendertoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Tents View Post
    I don't understand the problem. Wrap the tree strap around the tree as many times as necessary to eliminate excess tree strap length. Attach biner to the whoopie sling to the tree strap loop and adjust whoopie sling to desired tightness for hammock. The toggle is not needed that way. Where is the MSH even needed doing it as I explained. I'm thinking the MSH is more trouble than it is worth if you have the above components. Am I missing something? Someone? Anyone? Tell me.
    This is a different strokes for different folks situation. I personally don't like multiple wrapping the treestrap -

    If you need to re-position your treestrap on the tree and there are limbs in your way (especially if you have all the other hammock elements already clipped, tied, etc.) you now need to undo all your biner clipping, knots or whatever you have to attach you hammock to the strap, unwrap all the wraps of the strap, move the strap higher or lower on the tree, re-wrap the strap multiple times and re-attach your hammock via clipping, knotting, etc.

    Reason for the MSH with biners would be if you encounter a tree that has a slightly too large a girth to wrap your strap around twice (say you have a 6 foot treestrap and your tree is exactly 3 feet in girth). You now have to do something other than clipping the biner into the eye on the end of the webbing because you will have 3 feet of webbing hanging off your tree (and if you have a very short hang distance to begin with, you have an issue).

    YMMV

  3. #13
    Two Tents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBizzle View Post

    So instead of 2 decender rings we are using a carabiner to attach our whoopies? I guess something like the dutch biner is considerably lighter than most descender rings. Is this the only reason most are switching to whoopie/strap?

    I'm considering making a tree hugger out of amsteel and using a dutch biner to my whoopie. What do you think? Eliminating the strap should eliminate 2-4oz.
    One biner for each end. Descenders are pretty light. I don't know if the Dutch biner is much if any lighter. I would think the amsteel would be more likely to damage a tree than a strap. I guess deep down I'm not trusting the MSH without it being loaded. I will/do use it as my last resort when all my other options are no go's. Interesting debate this is.
    I like refried beans. That's why I wanna try fried beans, because maybe they're just as good and we're just wasting time. You don't have to fry them again after all.

  4. #14
    Member Towellie's Avatar
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    This was my thoughs exactly. You are using the hitch for a different purpose and loading it differently. The question is, is this safe and secure to do this. To me, the only advantage to the toggle is 2g for a 2" piece of aluminum bow shaft vs an ultra light carabiner like the Petzl Ange-S that weighs like 24g or something. I want to clip it and forget it, not make sure a whoopie is over a knot 20x a night.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member JBizzle's Avatar
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    I'm still having problems with taking a whoopie sling so I don't have to carry 2 extra feet of strap that I'm using as a tree hugger anyway...

    I want to eliminate the heavy strap completely otherwise I am creating extra work each and everytime I setup my hammock instead of dutch clip tree one, dutch clip tree two and pull webbing suspension tight.

    Most whoopie setups are: Attach tree hugger #1 tie MSH with toggle, attach tree hugger #2 tie MSH with toggle, make 100% sure whoopie is around the knot ONLY of toggle #1, then hopefully it doesn't move on you while you're wrapping your other whoopie around toggle #2. Now you can pull whoopie #1 tight and then whoopie #2 tight. Then you have to make sure your whoopie is on the knot each and everytime you're not applying your full weight to the hammock.
    JBizzle
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Tendertoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Towellie View Post
    This was my thoughs exactly. You are using the hitch for a different purpose and loading it differently. The question is, is this safe and secure to do this. To me, the only advantage to the toggle is 2g for a 2" piece of aluminum bow shaft vs an ultra light carabiner like the Petzl Ange-S that weighs like 24g or something. I want to clip it and forget it, not make sure a whoopie is over a knot 20x a night.
    Yes, I agree with you clipping and forgetting about it. That's why I used the setup as well.

    Just throw an extra slippery half hitch on the working end of the webbing behind the MSH and all should be good.

  7. #17
    Senior Member JBizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Tents View Post
    One biner for each end. Descenders are pretty light. I don't know if the Dutch biner is much if any lighter. I would think the amsteel would be more likely to damage a tree than a strap. I guess deep down I'm not trusting the MSH without it being loaded. I will/do use it as my last resort when all my other options are no go's. Interesting debate this is.
    Dutch biner is 20grams (0.7oz) for 2 of them. The lightest carabiner I can find is 1oz for 1.
    JBizzle
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  8. #18
    Jcavenagh's Avatar
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    Say, Dutch, aren't we going to have another element in this discussion soon?
    Something coolio for whoppie attachments? HMMMM?

  9. #19

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    I think your concern is unjustified. In my limited experience I really don't see the whoopie jumping off. You put the bight on the knot, do the same on the other end, adjust your whoopies to get the right hang, this in itself puts some tension on the set up and should keep it secure.

    I've left my hanging empty in the yard in windy condidtions and it stayed, I've gotten countless time playing with my UQ set up etc...

    Once you go out and do it I beleive you'll feel better about it. If not then use a biner...

    As they say HYOH
    "truth is uncontainable, and inexpressible. It neither is nor is not.
    This unformulated principle is the foundation of the different systems of all the sages."
    Diamond Sutra

  10. #20
    Senior Member BearChaser's Avatar
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    Whoopies directly around a tree could and will damage certain trees, especially soft bark trees. If you do use just whoopies, add plenty of sticks vertically between the whoopie & tree. You could set-up 100 times with no tree damage, on the 101st time you get tree damage. Then maybe someone sees it, raises a fuss, next thing you know. No hammocks allowed in the park. From there it could only snowball. 4oz. or so of extra weight for tree straps to prevent tree damage as best you can is like no weight at all. Cut the weight somewhere else. Shorten the whoopies, shorten the straps for the area you hike in mostly, take one less of something.

    Here is a recent pic from a fellow member that had to use whoopies but didn't use sticks to relieve pressure on the tree. If you look close enough, you can see the whoopie sinking into the bark. Sure, its not much, but to the right person, that is tree damage that could have been avoided by using a tent.

    http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/a...9&d=1316565760

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