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  1. #31
    Señor Member wisenber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stompyd View Post
    A heads up:
    Due to the unique and revolutionary insulation and manufacturing techniques required, Shiver Shield can NOT be sewn, punctured, or in any way ruptured. Caution should be taken to avoid getting holes in your Shiver Shield clothing. This could significantly reduce its insulative capability

    In the FAQ section... No love for the thread injectors among us.
    While the clothing should not be altered. Encasing other aerogel products in liners is still quite possible. After all, that is how the Shiver Shield garments are made. Buying a Shiver Shield garment just to get the aerogel would be like buying a complete new car just that you could alter the rear seat. It's a lot less costly to just buy aerogel or the car seat respectively. If on the other hand you want a complete Shiver Shield garment, there is no reason that you could not add to it while avoiding damaging aerogel just as you can hang fuzzy dice from a new car's mirror.

  2. #32
    Senior Member HappyHiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisenber View Post
    "Aerogel is a synthetic porous material derived from a gel, in which the liquid component of the gel has been replaced with a gas. The result is a solid with extremely low density[1] and thermal conductivity. It is nicknamed frozen smoke,[2] solid smoke, solid air or blue smoke owing to its translucent nature and the way light scatters in the material; however, it feels like expanded polystyrene (styrofoam) to the touch.

    Aerogel was first created by Samuel Stephens Kistler in 1931, as a result of a bet with Charles Learned over who could replace the liquid in "jellies" with gas without causing shrinkage.[3][4]
    Aerogels are good thermal insulators because they almost nullify the three methods of heat transfer (convection, conduction, and radiation). They are good conductive insulators because they are composed almost entirely from a gas, and gases are very poor heat conductors. Silica aerogel is especially good because silica is also a poor conductor of heat (a metallic aerogel, on the other hand, would be less effective). They are good convective inhibitors because air cannot circulate through the lattice. Carbon aerogel is a good radiative insulator because carbon absorbs the infrared radiation that transfers heat at standard temperatures."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel

    There are more than one manufacturer of Aerogel as there are no patents no longer in force from its 1931 development. Despite its cost, there is no better insulating material than aerogel. It has also been used in insulating spacecraft and arctic pipelines.
    It has been around fro some time in insoles as well for use in extremely hot or cold environments, so it has had apparel applications already. I would presume that the only limiting factor for sleeping pads would be cost, but it has been done.
    And? None of this was ever denied. You also skipped:

    "Silica-based aerogels are not known to be carcinogenic or toxic. However, they are a mechanical irritant to the eyes, skin, respiratory tract, and digestive system. They also can induce dryness of the skin, eyes, and mucous membranes. Therefore, it is recommended that protective gear including gloves and eye goggles be worn whenever handling aerogels.[32]"

    Ignoring Wikipedia, look at the MSDS - confirms all of the above.

    http://www.aerogel.com/products/overview-product.html

    As far as prior use, look up some of the actual tests done on articles that utilize the material, they didn't do as well as the claims and price would lead one to believe they would.

    http://www.backpackgeartest.org/revi...Ripley-Duggan/

    http://www.backpackgeartest.org/revi...ail%20Staisil/

    It is starting to appear in apparel as well as other consumer level items:

    http://www.thegearcaster.com/the_gea...he-future.html

    http://www.hanesbrands.com/hbi/docs/...nce_Report.pdf

    a report on the new clothing line. Note:

    "The Supersuit was worn in minus 40⁰ F temperatures and is described by expedition leader Jamie Clarke as the warmest coat he has ever worn. It
    performed best in extreme temperatures when rigorous aerobic activities were not taking place.

    The radiant foil layer, which is found throughout the entire garment, did its job to radiate heat back to the body. However, during more rigorous activities the foil prevented the escape of moisture."

    Aside from the heavy marketing and product endorsement, it appears to function in some capacity.



    Burton signed a contract with Aspen Aerogels way back in 2002 to develop a line of snowboard clothing:

    http://press.aerogel.com/index.php?s=25881&item=66313



    Aerogel insoles, buy a pair on Amazon! Only $19.99! (But don't miss the reviews, read some of the comments..)

    http://www.amazon.com/Toasty-Insoles...3366715&sr=8-5
    http://www.amazon.com/Toasty-Insoles...3366715&sr=8-5

    It hasn't taken the world by storm.

    I'm done here. The product has been out for quite a while, shows promise, and maybe someday it will live up to the hype. It seems to be improving over time as all products do. If you're really interested there's plenty of material out there to base an opinion on. Personally, I'm not going to buy the hype (or the product) until there's something to back it up.
    Experience is the worst teacher - it presents the exam first and the lesson later. - Unknown

  3. #33
    vdeal's Avatar
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    Forget Aerogel, you really need to try Klymit clothing. Adjustable insulation provided by inflating or deflating built in chambers in the garment with a tiny canister of argon gas.
    "There are places in this world that are neither here nor there, neither up nor down, neither real nor imaginary. These are the in-between places, difficult to find and even more challenging to sustain." - Thomas Moore

  4. #34
    Senior Member Mule's Avatar
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    I think aerojel is one of the lightest materials out there, and a 3 x 4 foot layer between the 2 layers of a hammock would be a great underquilt replacement. I would put some slits in it so it would conform to the canoe or hammock shape needed. I am open to this.
    There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.
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  5. #35
    Badchef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICanMakeThat View Post
    I just read the hazard information for this and it's not that dangerous at all. Breathing fibres is the only real bad part and the materials Wisenber mentioned don't appear to have that kind of problem. It's got me wondering now... A seating pad wouldn't be a bad first project with a square foot piece. You wouldn't have to worry about sitting on hot lava rock or dry ice at least
    I thought this was about breathing in down and this image came to mind.
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    Most often when someone says they can't, they are unwilling to try.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Frost's Avatar
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    Aerogel costs have been falling slowly, but steadily. New materials along the same line are being developed very quickly, so I think most folks on this forum will live to see down unseated as the best insulation pound for pound.

    These sorts of materials are unlikely to compress particularly well, but they have insulating capabilities that make a Z-rest look like a solid copper plate in comparison. Aerogel has a has an R-value approximately 5 times better than the best sleeping pad I can find on the market.. 3/16" would outperform almost anything we have currently, and weigh less than half what the best closed cell foam pads weigh right now.

    I'd point out that IX shares *a lot* of similarities to Aerogel in how it does it's thing, for the doubters.

    With the insane rate of advancement in nano-scale manufacturing in the last 20 years, the 'down fall' (see what I did there?) is inevitable. Maybe not imminent, but inevitable.

    If - if he stood! Enough of ifs!
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  7. #37
    Señor Member wisenber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Aerogel costs have been falling slowly, but steadily. New materials along the same line are being developed very quickly, so I think most folks on this forum will live to see down unseated as the best insulation pound for pound.

    These sorts of materials are unlikely to compress particularly well, but they have insulating capabilities that make a Z-rest look like a solid copper plate in comparison. Aerogel has a has an R-value approximately 5 times better than the best sleeping pad I can find on the market.. 3/16" would outperform almost anything we have currently, and weigh less than half what the best closed cell foam pads weigh right now.

    I'd point out that IX shares *a lot* of similarities to Aerogel in how it does it's thing, for the doubters.

    With the insane rate of advancement in nano-scale manufacturing in the last 20 years, the 'down fall' (see what I did there?) is inevitable. Maybe not imminent, but inevitable.
    Just as preferences shifted from synthetics back to wool, down will always have its place. From a pure insulation standpoint , there are probably numerous materials that currently outperform down. However, down brings a number of properties to the table. It is very lightweight as an insulation, but it compressibility for transit and packing along with the comfort make down pretty difficult to beat. In the mean time, down is not a static material. Development continues in creating more loft per ounce as well as efforts to resist moisture better.

    On IX, I'm not sure that it comes close to aerogel. From a conductive standpoint, aerogel seems to have an edge on an order of magnitude over IX with 5mm of aerogel having and R value of 10. IX on the other hand is sewable, stuffable, stable and affordable.

  8. #38
    Member pdizzle's Avatar
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    Theres no way this stuff could be breathable..at all. on that alone down has my vote. (same goes for klymit, talk about unnecessarily complicated)

  9. #39
    Senior Member Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisenber View Post
    Just as preferences shifted from synthetics back to wool, down will always have its place. From a pure insulation standpoint , there are probably numerous materials that currently outperform down. However, down brings a number of properties to the table. It is very lightweight as an insulation, but it compressibility for transit and packing along with the comfort make down pretty difficult to beat. In the mean time, down is not a static material. Development continues in creating more loft per ounce as well as efforts to resist moisture better.

    On IX, I'm not sure that it comes close to aerogel. From a conductive standpoint, aerogel seems to have an edge on an order of magnitude over IX with 5mm of aerogel having and R value of 10. IX on the other hand is sewable, stuffable, stable and affordable.
    IX definitely does not approach Aerogel's insulation value. My point there was more that materials much the same in construction (micro-porous polymers) are already available for insulation, and Aerogel is something of a taste of what this class of material is capable of. Technological progression dictates that, with time, 'State-of-the-art' will become 'every day tech'.

    Aerogel is actually a class of material, not so much a specific product. Most Aerogels are in fact open cell foams, and thus are breathable. If you looked at them under a microscope, they would look quite a lot like IX. The pores in Aerogel just take up a lot more of the material's volume, and they are a lot smaller.

    If - if he stood! Enough of ifs!
    He knew a path that wanted walking
    He knew a spring that wanted drinking
    A thought that wanted further thinking.
    A love that wanted re-renewing

    "A Lone Striker" Robert Frost

  10. #40
    Señor Member wisenber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    IX definitely does not approach Aerogel's insulation value. My point there was more that materials much the same in construction (micro-porous polymers) are already available for insulation, and Aerogel is something of a taste of what this class of material is capable of. Technological progression dictates that, with time, 'State-of-the-art' will become 'every day tech'.

    Aerogel is actually a class of material, not so much a specific product. Most Aerogels are in fact open cell foams, and thus are breathable. If you looked at them under a microscope, they would look quite a lot like IX. The pores in Aerogel just take up a lot more of the material's volume, and they are a lot smaller.
    Have you taken a look at these tests on the Shiver Shield garments though?
    http://youtu.be/9zocS3sxi0Q

    -300 F is pretty impressive!
    Last edited by wisenber; 12-13-2011 at 18:56.

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