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  1. #21
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootCause View Post
    What do you think might account for the differences in perceived temperature ratings for IX?
    1. Hot sleepers vs. cold sleepers
    2. Fit of the UQ
    3. Sleeper's clothing
    4. Ambient conditions
    5. Construction of the UQ

    Who knows?

    - MacEntyre
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacEntyre View Post
    ...InsulTubes help (learn more with HF search)....
    I've followed many IX UQ threads, searched several times and I still haven't figured out what an "InsulTubes 2'x3' sewn-in Torso Heater" is.

    Please explain for the search impaired. Thanks.

  3. #23
    the_lorax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    I've followed many IX UQ threads, searched several times and I still haven't figured out what an "InsulTubes 2'x3' sewn-in Torso Heater" is.

    Please explain for the search impaired. Thanks.
    Here you go Basically long ridges sewn into the IX so that the layers maintain a gap.

    And because a picture is worth a thousand words, I believe that Redoleary's video shows the InsulTubes too.

  4. #24
    Senior Member JohnSawyer's Avatar
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    Back to the poncho liner: I have a PLUQ, a DIY 3 layer IX, a KAQ lost river, and now that I'm out on medical leave for a week, I have all the material I need to make a DOWN UQ...

    The PLUQ works good down to 45 at best for me. (I sleep cold) but adding a layer of IX to it really helps...

    My KAQ is good to 32 degrees for "most folks" I am not "most folks" I sleep cold, so anything below 40 and a layer of IX really warms my backside. I haven't slept much below freezing here....

    Hope that helps.
    "Do or do not, there is no try." -- Yoda


  5. #25
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    That's a good point, John Sawyer... Insultex probably performs best when used as a supplement, between other things. That way, there are no issues of fit or cold intrusion. A sock outside Insultex does something similar. Carrying two yards of Insultex is as useful as carrying a space blanket. They are light weight. Carrying both is a great idea.
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
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  6. #26
    Member bluefields181's Avatar
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    wow guys you rock. Thanks for clearing that up.this forum is awesome!

  7. #27
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootCause View Post
    Hey Mac,

    I'm trying to reconcile the differences in your statements in this thread, and TeeDee's reported experience here: TeeDee IX TQ & UQ thread.

    What do you think might account for the differences in perceived temperature ratings for IX? This isn't like a little bitty difference, it's the difference between a nice 40* quilt and a 10* quilt- that's a huge swing!
    All the things MacEntyre already mentioned, plus maybe a couple of more:

    TeeDee AND his wife have both ( I think ) reported being almost TOASTY with 3 layers at 11F. So maybe it is not the hot sleeper thing. Maybe they will report in.

    I think a primary factor is a custom fit construction and guaranteed consistency of correct fit(just snug enough but with tiny air gap) and draft proofing.

    TeeDee got 3 layers of wide IX, and cut it so that each layer - with the bridge hammock side and bottom as the 1st layer of 6(1 hammock, 1 inner nylon shell- 3 IX- 1 outer nylon shell) - is smaller than the next outer layer.

    I'll have to go back and read the thread, but I think all of this was then Velcroed to the hammock, covering the sides and ends. So no suspension variable to deal with, it was all custom fit all of the time, ad draft proof, and hung with correct tension for the IX. Not too loose, not too tight, just right. It may be this type of custom fit approach is allowing TeeDee to much more closely approach the potential of the IX. As opposed as a quilt with a suspension meant to be hung on many different brands of hammocks?

    There was a weight penalty for the nylon shells, making it about as heavy as a 20-30F down UQ. But you don't have to use the shell, or you could just use the outer shell.

    EDIT: no Velcro, rather a perfect custom fit : quote TeeDee
    this design for a Bridge under quilt necessitates that the top shell fabric be an exact duplicate of the Bridge Hammock it is used on and that the corners of the under quilt must line up exactly with the corners of the Bridge Hammock."
    Also:
    The coldest I got this winter was 11 F and I was toasty warm wearing only cotton briefs, cotton Tee and cotton socks.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 12-13-2011 at 15:55.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  8. #28
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacEntyre View Post
    1. Hot sleepers vs. cold sleepers
    2. Fit of the UQ
    3. Sleeper's clothing
    4. Ambient conditions
    5. Construction of the UQ

    Who knows?

    - MacEntyre
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    All the things MacEntyre already mentioned, plus maybe a couple of more:

    TeeDee AND his wife have both ( I think ) reported being almost TOASTY with 3 layers at 11F. So maybe it is not the hot sleeper thing. Maybe they will report in.

    I think a primary factor is a custom fit construction and guaranteed consistency of correct fit(just snug enough but with tiny air gap) and draft proofing.

    TeeDee got 3 layers of wide IX, and cut it so that each layer - with the bridge hammock side and bottom as the 1st layer of 6(1 hammock, 1 inner nylon shell- 3 IX- 1 outer nylon shell) - is smaller than the next outer layer.

    I'll have to go back and read the thread, but I think all of this was then Velcroed to the hammock, covering the sides and ends. So no suspension variable to deal with, it was all custom fit all of the time, ad draft proof, and hung with correct tension for the IX. Not too loose, not too tight, just right. It may be this type of custom fit approach is allowing TeeDee to much more closely approach the potential of the IX. As opposed as a quilt with a suspension meant to be hung on many different brands of hammocks?

    There was a weight penalty for the nylon shells, making it about as heavy as a 20-30F down UQ. But you don't have to use the shell, or you could just use the outer shell.

    EDIT: no Velcro, rather a perfect custom fit : quote TeeDeeAlso:
    Well TeeDee isn't available and won't be for a few months, so I'll tell you what my opinion is:

    Quilt design and construction.

    TeeDee uses the full 60" width of the Insultex for both the UQ and TQ.

    For the UQs, the nylon layer next to the hammock is only 44" wide at it's widest. The outer nylon layer is a full 60" wide at it's widest as are the 3 layers of Insultex. That means that there is a LOT of Insultex to fold back and forth and up and down to form "tubes" within the UQ. Maybe somewhat similar to Mac's InsulTubes, only built into the UQ. The same is true of the TQs. The nylon layer next to the person is only 50" wide, but the 3 layers of Insultex and the top nylon layer are all the full 60" of the fabric. Again that leaves a LOT of Insultx to fold back and forth and up and down to form tubes and keep the layers well separated.

    Also, the UQ is designed and constructed specifically for a specific Bridge Hammock and mates with the exact dimensions of that Bridge and that Bridge only. This insures at least 2 things:

    1. easy fit. It is a matter of seconds to fit the UQ to the Bridge Hammock immediately when it is made and always thereafter it only takes seconds to attach the UQ to the Bridge. The fit is designed into the UQ and thus
    2. eliminates ANY air leaks from the sides and from the ends each and every time the UQ is attached to the Bridge hammock. The top nylon shell of the UQ fits the bottom of the Bridge for which it is made like a second skin, it is actually that tight.


    Of course, TeeDee could do this since the UQs had to fit one and only one hammock. Any commercial vendor would be unable to do this.

    One thing TeeDee keeps saying: he learned and re-learned very quickly from both his experiments and from the experience of those ice fishermen using the Arctic Armour outfits - the Insultex MUST remain loose both between Insultex layers and between the inner and outer shell fabrics. If it touches, a large part of the insulation is lost. He worked hard to insure that the Insultex doesn't touch either the hammock or the person.

    Remember, the arctic Armour outfits use 3 layers of Insultex and the users that TeeDee personally talked to testified that they were comfortable sitting around in very cold conditions, some down to single digits. No special clothing underneath. TeeDee personally inspected one of the outfits when he picked up the Insultex and learned that the outfits make the wearer look like the Michelin Man - those outfits look like the wearer is inside a balloon they fit so loosely. The outfitters that sell the outfits advised that a person should only get a size that is 2 sizes too large for them to insure a very loose fit.

  9. #29
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiredFeet View Post
    ...form "tubes" within the UQ. Maybe somewhat similar to Mac's InsulTubes, only built into the UQ.
    Molly Mac Gear InsulTubes are also built into the UQ, just the same, but fewer of them because of the weight penalty.

    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
    www.MollyMacGear.com

  10. #30
    Senior Member dimeotane's Avatar
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    insultex is what?

    So to add more to the IX circus....

    many comments from people who have it, say that it looks identical to the foam used to pack items, or flooring underlay, sandwiched between two layers of thin fabric (scrim).

    So has anyone tried sewing LDPE (Low Density Polyethylene) packing foam, or polyfoam underlay for flooring? Roberts Unison 2 in 1 underlayment is sold at Home Depot in a 48 inch wide x 300 " roll for $24. This foam is 3/32 (2.38 mm) thick. If several layers are sandwiched with an air gap between them (say in an underquilt) the R value would be much higher. A 2 cm thick layer would give an R value of at least 2.3.
    LDPE foam layers are thin and flexible and could likely be used much like IX.

    Sound Barrier Plus is a 1/16 foam flooring underlay that gives a much higher R value of 1.6 for this thin layer, which looks promising. If this is accurate a 6mm layer could be R 6!

    What do you guys think?
    Last edited by dimeotane; 12-13-2011 at 18:26.

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