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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacEntyre View Post
    Yes. More specifically, it does not like to be compressed. It works best when it is held so lightly against the hammock that there is a tiny gap, perhaps only 1/16". We make sure that gap exists by building in longitudinal pleats.

    Certainly! That's why PEF works so well as a supplement.
    gotcha, so it's not so much about gap but about being compressed (like down loft). so when making a UQ with IX/PEF in mind, its all about enough slack to prevent compression?

    What then differentiates the abilities of of IX/PEF from things like Climashield/Primaloft insulations? Would layering them like:

    Insulbrite>PEF>Climashield>PEF>Climashield>PEF

    be worth trying? I'm wondering how it would compare to a down UQ by weight, especially as a cheap home-made option....

    thanks!

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinCanFury View Post
    gotcha, so it's not so much about gap but about being compressed (like down loft). so when making a UQ with IX/PEF in mind, its all about enough slack to prevent compression?
    I make IX UQs so that you can pull it up tight against the hammock, but the InsulTubes and differential cut construction make sure the IX layers aren't compressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by TinCanFury View Post
    What then differentiates the abilities of of IX/PEF from things like Climashield/Primaloft insulations? Would layering them like:

    Insulbrite>PEF>Climashield>PEF>Climashield>PEF

    be worth trying? I'm wondering how it would compare to a down UQ by weight, especially as a cheap home-made option....
    Give it a try!

    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
    www.MollyMacGear.com

  3. #43
    Senior Member dimeotane's Avatar
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    ideas:

    Here's two popular places that have a possible alternative to IX:

    Uhaul cushioning foam 12 inch x 40 ft. 3/32 thick $4.95

    FoamsealR Sill Gasket - 5 1/2" X 82' X 3/16" $9.69 from Home Depot

    These two would require quilting the 12" or 5.5" strips together. But I've been reading on HF about people who recommend sewing "insul tubes" into IX anyway to create the air gap.

    At the moment I don't know of any local places to buy 60 inch wide rolls of the stuff.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacEntyre View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TinCanFury View Post
    What then differentiates the abilities of of IX/PEF from things like Climashield/Primaloft insulations? Would layering them like:

    Insulbrite>PEF>Climashield>PEF>Climashield>PEF

    be worth trying? I'm wondering how it would compare to a down UQ by weight, especially as a cheap home-made option....
    Give it a try!


    I think I will! I just wanted to make sure this idea would work. would I need to pleat it or can I lay them flat?

  5. #45
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Between other insulation, I would not bother to pleat it.
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
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  6. #46
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    Man, PPEF is "expensive", anyone wanna split a 2000' roll?

    or, alternatively, anyone know where to buy 1/32" x 48" in shorter lengths?

  7. #47
    Senior Member greggg3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimeotane View Post
    So has anyone tried sewing LDPE (Low Density Polyethylene) packing foam, or polyfoam underlay for flooring? Roberts Unison 2 in 1 underlayment is sold at Home Depot in a 48 inch wide x 300 " roll for $24. This foam is 3/32 (2.38 mm) thick. If several layers are sandwiched with an air gap between them (say in an underquilt) the R value would be much higher. A 2 cm thick layer would give an R value of at least 2.3.
    LDPE foam layers are thin and flexible and could likely be used much like IX.

    Sound Barrier Plus is a 1/16 foam flooring underlay that gives a much higher R value of 1.6 for this thin layer, which looks promising. If this is accurate a 6mm layer could be R 6!
    OK, I admit it, I am now really confused on the R rating thing. I thought I understood it after reading Youngbloods posts on pads, but now I'm seeing really high R values for very thin material - in another thread it said

    "IX has an R value of 1.76 and a thickness of .02 inches while 2 layers of 5 mil PE have an R value of 1.5 and a thickness of .01 inches."

    This is sort of consistent with what you're saying here - 1/16" foam flooring underlay with R of 1.6. But how can this be when a foam pad of 3/4" only has an R value of 2-3 ? I know if I was sleeping on the ground (shudder - just theoretically, not really gonna do that) I'd rather have the 3/4" foam pad than 4 layers of PE sheeting. Are you supposed to multiply the R value by the thickness to get the true insulative value or something?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by greggg3 View Post
    OK, I admit it, I am now really confused on the R rating thing. I thought I understood it after reading Youngbloods posts on pads, but now I'm seeing really high R values for very thin material - in another thread it said

    "IX has an R value of 1.76 and a thickness of .02 inches while 2 layers of 5 mil PE have an R value of 1.5 and a thickness of .01 inches."

    This is sort of consistent with what you're saying here - 1/16" foam flooring underlay with R of 1.6. But how can this be when a foam pad of 3/4" only has an R value of 2-3 ? I know if I was sleeping on the ground (shudder - just theoretically, not really gonna do that) I'd rather have the 3/4" foam pad than 4 layers of PE sheeting. Are you supposed to multiply the R value by the thickness to get the true insulative value or something?
    I don't know if I quite understand your confusion?

    R-value is rated on the material in question with thickness taken into account. So a material with 1/32" will have it's own R-value and the same material at 1/4" will have it's own R-value, and they will be different.

    wikipedia, as per usual, has a good entry on it:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_%28insulation%29

    R-value is not "insulative value", it is a measure of thermal resistance. Also, there is not standard for testing R-Value, so the temperatures used to calculate are not standardized, nor are the other environmental conditions, so you take what you read with a grain of salt.

  9. #49
    Senior Member greggg3's Avatar
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    I guess it just doesn't sound right to me - I don't know about IX but I am very familiar with sleeping on PE sheeting. I'm almost certain that I'd be warmer on a 3/4" foam pad than I would on 4 sheets of 5 mil PE sheeting. Based on the R values however that were quoted, it says that 4 sheets of PE would have an R of 3 while a 3/4" thick z rest pad only has 2.2 Doesn't this seem wrong to you all?

  10. #50
    Prefers life at 12 MPH. FLRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greggg3 View Post
    I guess it just doesn't sound right to me - I don't know about IX but I am very familiar with sleeping on PE sheeting. I'm almost certain that I'd be warmer on a 3/4" foam pad than I would on 4 sheets of 5 mil PE sheeting. Based on the R values however that were quoted, it says that 4 sheets of PE would have an R of 3 while a 3/4" thick z rest pad only has 2.2 Doesn't this seem wrong to you all?
    How much does the polyethylene compress? Does it compress at all? If so, it's likely that there's your answer.

    If not, is it possible that the thermal inertia (which is different from R-value, if I understand the wiki article correctly) of the CCF pad is greater than the thermal inertia of the PE? And, if so, is it enough to retain your body's heat inside the pad long enough to make up for the difference in R-value (in other words, is there enough extra heat stored in the CCF pad versus the PE to outweigh the difference in heat loss over a given time)? That might have something to do with it, if I understand the physics correctly--not always a safe bet.

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