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  1. #11
    New Member billslade's Avatar
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    Smile Enjoy!

    Ankh -

    I went on the Sea Base out island trip back in 92. I was helping out with the scouts and had a great time on the island. We took a boat out but kayaking sounds like a great way to get there.

    I don't have any warm weather hammock advice as we slept on the sand. Most nights in the tent but the last was on the beach under the stars. Have a great time as it's a trip to remember.

    Bill

  2. #12
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    80+ degrees at night, probably hotter, down near Key West, should I have the boys bring a pad to sleep on? bag liner?
    Howdy Ankh! There are a couple of us Scouters here that hang in all kinds of Texas weather. From 22F cold winter nights to 85F summer nights. the only thing that makes camping in central Texas bearable during summer months is a hammock.

    One of the most miserable nights I've ever spent camping was a couple of summers ago and night time temps were around 85F and muggy, muggy, muggy. The guys that were in tents were miserable.

    I'd stay away from the ccf pads. You'll sweat to death. I put a neat sheet in my hammock to lay on and had a bug net over the top. Used a cheap fleece Walmart blanket as top cover but didn't really need it. It was way too hot. Neat sheet for the top would have been fine.

    Another top cover option is the $25 bag from Sportsman's guide. I turned mine into a quilt and it works great. But for 80-85F, it might still be too hot.
    In that type of weather, if I get cold I'll put on my LS shirt and long nylon pants.

    If bugs will be a problem, then use pyrethrim (sp?) on the hammock or some type of non-DEET repellant on your sleep clothes. Or, use a bug net.

    Let us know if you have any additional questions.

    What type hammocks does the group plan on using?

    Tango

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by koaloha05 View Post
    Anyone know if the Pacific Outdoor Tropical pad would be an option especially for us "back sweaters"? There site comments on its breathability or allow air circulation. You can supposedly slip an insert into it for more padding and insulation. Might make the ideal tropical pad. Keep you cooler when hot, warmer when cold by placing some spare clothing or whatever in the insert.

    Again commenting from zero experience. Would a weather shield for the hammock provide enough warmth for cooler and/or windy tropical nights and also provide protection when exposed to heavy driving rains? If so, no need for a pad. Weather shield would serve multiple uses, maybe pack lighter & smaller.
    I haven't seen that pad and they don't have any descriptions about it on their web site this morning so I'm not sure what they have done. It looks like they have tried to improve the venting action on the top surface of the pad and use very light insulation with it. It isn't clear to me whether the pad itself is waterproof and a vapor barrier but my guess is that it is. When you are on the ground you need something waterproof underneath you because you may have to deal with wet ground.

    But be assured that everybody is a back sweater. We all sweat when we overheat. In most conditions our back sweats when we hike for hours with a snug fitting day back or backpack. Our sweat accumulates because our backs are overheating and the pack interferes with evaporative cooling while it is in place. But, if you wore that same pack on a cool day where you needed some insulation when you where just standing around, you wouldn't accumulate sweat in the same manner if at all.

    The same scenario plays out when you aren't wearing a pack with a non-breathable rain jacket, but it isn't localized to just your back. If you stand around wearing that rain jacket when it is cool enough to need insulation, you might not sweat, in fact you may be more comfortable with it on because it adds some needed warmth. However, if you stand around wearing that rain jacket when it is hot, you are going to sweat.

    Basically what you are dealing with is a vapor barrier when you sleep on closed cell foam pads or inflated pads. A vapor barrier does not let vapor through. I believe a vapor barrier will always be water proof. I'm copying part of a previous post where I tried to explain before about vapor barriers, insensible perspiration, sensible perspiration (or sweat), and how it plays out.

    In general, breathable insulation works best when your insulation is
    getting too warm for you and less breathable insulation works best
    when your insulation is not quite warm enough for you. That has
    everything to do with how, when, and why your body produces sweat (or
    sensible perspiration) and insensible perspiration.

    Your body produces sweat to help cool off at the outer surface of your
    skin with evaporative cooling when you overheat. Your body does not
    produce sweat when you are not overheating... you don't just leak
    water through your skin all the time. When you are not sweating, your
    body can produce insensible perspiration to keep your skin from drying
    out. If your skin is moist enough, or not too dry, your body doesn't
    produce insensible perspiration because it senses that it doesn't need
    to.

    It takes energy for your body to produce insensible perspiration.
    When you are not overheating and your skin is not producing sweat, a
    vapor barrier will cause your skin to quit producing insensible
    perspiration after some period of time. Your skin quits producing
    insensible perspiration because the vapor barrier creates a high
    humidity environment by trapping the moisture from your previous
    insensible perspiration. When this happens your body does not use
    energy to produce that insensible perspiration anymore and can use
    that energy to help keep you warmer. It a sense, your body becomes a
    more efficient furnace.

    A vapor barrier is not so good when used at the wrong time or when
    used incorrectly. When you are overheating and using a vapor barrier,
    your skin continually produces sweat as a means of cooling off via
    evaporative cooling. The vapor barrier prevents the evaporative
    cooling because the sweat is trapped by the vapor barrier. You just
    keep sweating and moisture can build up. You need to do something to
    keep from overheating because what you body is doing isn't working
    because of the vapor barrier. You need to remove the vapor barrier,
    vent, or remove insulation.

    When you use a vapor barrier with breathable insulation between it and
    your skin, that breathable insulation is subject to getting moist or
    even wet from insensible perspiration. The insensible perspiration
    will initially pass through the breathable insulation and stop when it
    hits the vapor barrier. This continues until the humidity builds up
    enough for skin to quit producing insensible perspiration. But until
    that happens, that breathable insulation is going to be getting moist
    too. What you want is a thin wickable sheet of fabric between you and
    the vapor barrier such that it can wick any slight moisture buildup
    away where it can evaporate into the surrounding air. Of course it
    helps for the surrounding air to be able to absorb that moisture
    because if it can't, it won't and you will be clammy.

    And of course, if you use breathable insulation between you and a
    vapor barrier while you are overheating, you will soak that breathable
    insulation with sweat (sensible perspiration). That is bad and that
    happens when people don't understand how and when to use a vapor
    barrier.
    Youngblood AT2000

  4. #14
    New Member ankh's Avatar
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    OK, following the thread, pads are used for warmth, not really for comfort in the hammock(?) so in hot weather lying on or in a sleeping bag liner or light fleece bag on the hammock material should/may suffice? The pads don't offer anything structural, like squaring up the hammock for sleeping? I'm grasping the various terms being thrown about here, neat sheet? Will search this term.

    Hennessy has made an offer of a group rate for us so we are leaning towards Hennessy and I like their set up with the tarp and all. I am a neophyte so am not drawing on a lot of experience.

    I appreciate all your responses, I've got a few miles on the AT here in NJ and do a lot of camping and would really like this hammock thing to work out, I'm sick of tossing and turning cause my arm, back or hips hurt. thanks

  5. #15
    Senior Member Splat's Avatar
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    Have any of these kids ever slept on a hammock before? While it is incredibly comfortable for some, it's not so for everyone. I would try a few test runs with the kids before subjecting them to hammocking on the trip. If time doesn't permit a few test runs then just use tents.
    Splat

    "Well, it's one louder, isn't it?"

  6. #16
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    Have they ever slept in a tent before? You may want them to practice in a tent too before you subject them to that...


    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
    - Mark Twain
    I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order.
    - John Burroughs

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ankh View Post
    OK, following the thread, pads are used for warmth, not really for comfort in the hammock(?) so in hot weather lying on or in a sleeping bag liner or light fleece bag on the hammock material should/may suffice? The pads don't offer anything structural, like squaring up the hammock for sleeping?
    In general all that is correct. There are exceptions to that but you aren't concerned with that right now.

    When it is hot you don't need pads and you don't want them. In summer weather, it may be too hot for any insulation what-so-ever when you go to bed but cool enough to need something during the night. You have decisions to make with how to handle that.

    You can go to bed with the insulation you are going to need during the night and be too hot until it cools off or you can go to bed without that insulation and then get it out when it cools off. Of course how hot is too hot and are you sweating may enter into that, as well as other things. It is a bit awkward.

    Some folks have problems with mosquitoes biting them through the fabric material, others don't. That can enter into this as well.
    Youngblood AT2000

  8. #18
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    I've not hung in hot weather yet. I have a new style jrb weather shield and jrb stealth. I was thinking of using the WS underneath for bug protection and the stealth on top if I got chilly. does this sound good or would putting the stealth underneath and using the WS as a top "quilt" be better?

  9. #19
    Senior Member stoikurt's Avatar
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    Hey ankh, funny you should be asking about this. We have a contingent from my troop on that out island adventure at Sea Base right now as we type. I've recently converted one of the leaders to hammocks. He was going to take his hammock and give it a try there, so when they get back next week I should be able to give a report of the available trees and conditions on the island. Knowing the BSA, it's quite possible they may frown on hammocks and tying them to the trees there. But I'll try to let you know next week.
    Stoikurt
    "Work to Live...Don't Live to Work!"

  10. #20
    Oms's Avatar
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    Has anyone ever tried to glue a cheap fleece blanket to some 1/4 ccp cut to size. You could even make "wings" (insulation for your arms) that fold in nicely. It may help breathability slightly.
    Just a thought.

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