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  1. #11
    SmokeBait's Avatar
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    Here is the recommendation from Samson Rope. Note - 1 fid equals 21 or 22 times the cord diameter. I've used 22 times in the measurements below.

    REVISED - For the fixed eye bury - 2 fids or approx. 4.8 inches. The 2 1/4 fids I posted prior was the spacing between needle entry/exit marks.
    REVISED - For the constrictor bury - 3 1/2 fids or approx. 8.4" inches
    Last edited by SmokeBait; 02-15-2012 at 10:10. Reason: revised numbers

  2. #12
    Senior Member dedominick's Avatar
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    If I am picturing the set up correctly, it may be best to use straps and rings, it would be adjustable, and get nice and short. You wouldn't have to worry about the weight of the setup because it will mostly be in the backyard, and it would be plenty strong...

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hppyfngy View Post
    The brummel is locked, that's what makes it hold. An inch of bury isn't enough to be safe, but stitching it should be adequate to fix that IMHO. How's it going to come apart??....
    It's not going to come apart due to handling but w/o the proper length of bury all the load is on the brummel and stitching which will severely derate the line. The strength of these splices lies in the bury.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeBait View Post
    Here is the recommendation from Samson Rope. Note - 1 fid equals 22 times the cord diameter:

    For the fixed eye bury - 2 1/4 fids or approx. 5.2 inches
    For the constrictor bury - 3 1/2 fids or approx. 8.1" inches
    When all else fails. Read the instructions.
    Thanks SmokeBait.
    Knotty
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  4. #14
    Senior Member SweetLou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeBait View Post
    Here is the recommendation from Samson Rope. Note - 1 fid equals 22 times the cord diameter:

    For the fixed eye bury - 2 1/4 fids or approx. 5.2 inches
    For the constrictor bury - 3 1/2 fids or approx. 8.1" inches
    I've always been confused on this measurement. Is that the measurement of the bury not including the taper or including the taper? I play it safe and don't include the taper.

    For the fixed eye bury, I will measure 5.5" for the bury, plus another 2-3 inches for the taper.

  5. #15
    but enough about me hppyfngy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knotty View Post
    It's not going to come apart due to handling but w/o the proper length of bury all the load is on the brummel and stitching which will severely derate the line. The strength of these splices lies in the bury.
    That makes sense.
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  6. #16
    DivaB's Avatar
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    I love them!! I need 2 sets for our hammock chairs. Any chance you'd sell a couple of sets if you have enough material to make them? PM me if you can. Fingers crossed.

  7. #17
    SmokeBait's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetLou View Post
    I've always been confused on this measurement. Is that the measurement of the bury not including the taper or including the taper? I play it safe and don't include the taper.

    For the fixed eye bury, I will measure 5.5" for the bury, plus another 2-3 inches for the taper.
    SweetLou, I'm like you and play if safe with a little extra. Samson's measurement does include the taper however. I revised my post above as the spec for the fixed eye bury is actually 2 fids. The 2 1/4 fids is the span between marks for needle entry/exit. Depends on who you talk to but the definition of a fid can be 21 or 22 times the diameter of the line. So I used 22 to be on the safe side. When we make ours, we up that a bit just to be sure.

  8. #18
    Senior Member DemostiX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knotty View Post
    Bubba speaks wisdom. The locked brummel part of the splice is just to prevent the bury from coming out when it's not under load. You still need to have the proper length of bury for the fixed splice to be secure. Last thing you want is for dad's back to meet the stand's crossbar. Be safe.
    Knotty may be the last to be controversial, but his second statement, about the function of the locked brummel has been subject to serious -- not frivolous -- challenge. Is the brummel the knot-equivalent where the load is carried and the eye-size set? In that analysis, the bury --or tight and strong whipping -- keeps the strands of the rope from unravelling. Or is the bury and sleeve (or equivalently the Shoemaker and Tuck splices) where the load is carried, with the locked brummel just fixing the eye size both under load and when the rope and sleeve are loose against one another? (For those having trouble burying much length, the shoemaker's splice is worth looking at.)

    Engineers and materials scientists who have instrumented ropes, knots, and splices may know, but arborist and other rope-related forums don't answer the question. Maybe it is the wrong question because what finally matters is system failure from any source. So, in the Shoemaker splice it seems that the final bury is not for strength, but in order to take care of the loose end which would otherwise come un-braided or snag in use. Just conjecture, that.

    ++++++++++++++

    Nuts to fids as measurements. Just think 72 x diameter, a number which is longer for this type of cordage than earlier rules of thumb for ropes of earlier materials. This larger number reflects, according to US Sailing, what has been learned over a couple of decades about this stuff which is both much stronger and also more slippery than previous fibers. The greater strength means that loads are larger per diameter, discounting diameter as a metric for splice length. The great slipperiness means that self-unbraiding as well as self-gripping of sleeve over bury are lower than in even in earlier synthetic fiber ropes.

  9. #19
    Knotty's Avatar
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    Couple of thoughts.

    -The rope manufacturers know much more than me, which is why it's a good idea to follow their splicing instructions and they specify the length of the bury with a brummel splice.

    -The shoemaker's splice may get some strength from the four passes it makes through itself, as compared to just two in a brummel. Still, to me it looks like the buried tail is part of the equation. Just conjecture, that.
    Knotty
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