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  1. #1
    UrsaMajor1887's Avatar
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    Question Noob UQ and set up questions

    I have been surfing the forum for a couple of months (off/on) as I have been considering hammock camping. I just recently became a member of this forum. I came across hammock camping while I was looking for a lower weight shelter for my solo gear list. I just can’t get my head around tarping yet and I guess Shug has already been down that road and is now a hammock guru.

    One of my friends has a Hennessey Expedition Asym Classic. The trees in my backyard are too far apart, so I tied off to my kid’s swing set, which is just barely big enough for a Hennessey to hang. Temperatures were in the lower 50s that night. For my bottom insulation I used a half inflated NeoAir. On top, I used my MH Lamina 45. One of my shoulders got cold a couple of times during the night and for the 4 AM night call, I wound up waking all the way up trying getting out of the sleeping bag, finding the opening under my NeoAir, and then finding my shoes in the wet grass. Normally, I like to stay half-asleep for a 4 AM night call; impossible with the Hennessy and NeoAir. Getting back in was also a major affair as some of you surely know.

    The other problem I had with the Hennessey was with my height. I am 6'2" and weigh 170 pounds. Later, I discovered the Expedition Asym Classic is rated for people up to 6 feet tall. They aren’t kidding about that. My friend is 5'0", so it never bothered her, but I just could not find a happy place in the Hennessey (nothing against Hennessey). Either my feet were up in the gather or my head was. I tried to find a good asym laying position, but I just didn’t fit.

    I thought about the Explorer Ultralight Classic, but I didn’t really want all the space that a 7’ person would need, especially after looking at the weight difference from the Hyperlite Asym Classic (7 oz. diff.). I am also trying to get my base pack weight down below 15 lbs.

    Enter the WBBB 1.7 SL at 21 oz. and good for someone up to 6’8”. Side zip, foot box, shelf, weight, what’s not to like. Add whoopie slings, Dutch clips and a ZPacks Cuban Hex Tarp and I should be off to a good start.

    Now for insulation (3-season): I am going with the WBBB SL as I think I am going to be an UQ kind of guy sooner rather than later, so the double layer provides no advantage… or does it. I carry a Z-Rest sit pad already. If I trade up to something bigger for my sit pad, then I could cut down on my UQ. My concern is, with my height, will I have enough coverage with the WB Yeti at 46” and 12.5 oz? Or should I look to the HG Phoenix at 52” and 16.2 oz. as I don’t want to go with a big sit/lower leg pad? Or should I just make my life easy, carry another few ounces, and go with the HG Incubator 20* at 78” and 22.5 oz.

    For my sit/lower leg pad I was thinking GG ThinLight Pad 1/4” cut down to whatever size I need. Do you think my legs will be warm enough if I couple this with the 46” Yeti and 32”pad? Is the GG 1/4” pad warm enough for my legs at 20*? I figure my total weight on this option would be 19.5 oz. With the Incubator, I think I would be warmer all over, not have to fight with the pad, and come in at 24.5 oz. with my Z-Rest sit pad, but that is 5 oz more than the Yeti combo and maybe more if I can cut the GG pad down below 7 oz.

    Anything else I should consider?

    Thanks for your input!

  2. #2
    Senior Member jnelson871's Avatar
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    I have a lot of the same questions. The answers I have been getting so far are that it depends on how warm you sleep. I have used a GG nightlite pad on the ground and it was fine but not with a yeti. As soon as my tax return comes in I am planning on picking up a yeti so will let you know how it works with the nightlite pad. The phoenix is 6" longer so may be better if you are a cold sleeper people have informed me. I am a little over 6' as well so in the same boat. The general consensus is to pick the one you want to try and then if you dislike it then resell it here since everyone is always experimenting and gear trades around quickly. Good Luck and welcome!
    Ground=Cold+Hard+Wet

    Solution!!!! Sleep in a TREE

  3. #3
    UrsaMajor1887's Avatar
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    It is hard to say if I am a warm sleeper or not. At 6'2" and 170 lbs. I don't have a much natural insulation, but I don’t think I am a cold sleeper. I have been out with cold sleepers, so I know what that looks like. Hot ones too. I may just be a “normal” sleeper.

    In testing my MH Lamina 45 in the back yard, I have been down to 30* in a Nemo Meta 2p (alone), with one vestibule open to help prevent condensation. Winds blew all night (few trees to block it) at 8 to 15 mph. I had on my Patagonia Cap 3 thermals and a Patagonia Nano Puff pullover, Windstopper hat and gloves and fuzzy hiking socks. I was cool, but not cold and woke frequently not due to the cold, but due to the wind battering the tent. I had a 20* synthetic bag as backup in the tent with me, but never felt like I needed to pull it over me.

    I was in the NH Whites a couple of years ago in late September and it went down to 24* both nights. I had my 20* syn. bag, the Cap 3's, Nano Puff and hat. I was on a 4 season Thermarest too. I had to chuck everything out of the bag except the thermals and socks. Two of us were in a 4-season tent and I am sure that didn't hurt the temperature rating on my bag.

    I always make sure I have had plenty to eat and drink in the evening, and that I don't let myself get cold before crawling into my bag.

    The Phoenix is 45W x 52L”. The Yeti is 40W x 46L”. I may be tall and thin, but I do have shoulders. The Phoenix is almost as wide as the Yeti is long and only 4.2 oz heavier. I could probably save another ounce off the ccf pad at rufly an oz per inch of 1/4” pad netting only 3.2 oz heavier. Hummm. Do these numbers sound right?

    I will be headed to NH in July this year with expected lows in the 40’s like they were last year when I was up there, but I would really like to be able to handle a cold snap as the record low up there in July was 24*. Average lows are in the lower 40’s at that time of year. I would rather carry a little more weight and not be cold than get caught freezing all night.

  4. #4
    UrsaMajor1887's Avatar
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    Well, last Friday I put in my order for a WBBB 1.7 single layer. I have not made up my mind on which UQ to go with, but am leaning toward the HG Phoenix 20°.

  5. #5
    MAD777's Avatar
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    I'm your height and prefer a 51" length under quilt by 40" wide in my WBBB.
    The CCF pad will keep your legs warm.
    Mike
    "Life is a Project!"

  6. #6
    UrsaMajor1887's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAD777 View Post
    I'm your height and prefer a 51" length under quilt by 40" wide in my WBBB.
    The CCF pad will keep your legs warm.
    I see you DIYed you quilts. What shell materials did you use in putting them together and was it your first project or did you have some time at the sewing machine already?

  7. #7
    A lot of what your asking is what you have to determine by trial & error. Many people have a 'fiddle factor' when it comes to figuring out their sleep system. I started with pads, then go a 2/3 synthetic. I then got a winter Yeti & found that I got cold feet easy, even using an inflatable seat pad under them. I moved on to a HG Incubator & was so happy with it that I now have 3 of them.

    A couple of things you might think about. If you're using an inflatable pad, you want to let out some of the air, so that it's only 1/2 full. If you're using a 2/3 UQ and get cold, you can slip a pad between the layers on a double & it won't move; whereas on a single, it can still shift.

    As the temps go lower, the more length you'll likely want on your UQ. Figure out your lowest temperatures & work from there. I understand you wanting to keep the weight off. To me, my comfort was more important than the weight. I chose to carry a little extra, just in case.

    Raul did a great video if you want to see a comparison of what you're talking about:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9GAu...ure=plpp_video

  8. #8
    Senior Member Raul Perez's Avatar
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    Rodwolfy beat me to it. I show both the yeti and the phoenix side by side in that video.

    But to further answer your question the 1/4" GG pad will be fine for your legs down to 20*F. I've gotten it down to single digits.
    "If you give a monkey a gun and he shoots someone, you dont blame the monkey"

    The end of the world is not coming in December, it is happening now in my living room. - TFC Rick

    http://watermonkey.net/

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    http://www.youtube.com/user/RaulPerez1?feature=mhee

  9. #9
    UrsaMajor1887's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments.

    I was concerned about "how low I could go" with the GG 1/4". Its good to know that WM has been good to single digits with one. I don't think I will be going down that low in NH in July... At least I hope not By the way WM, I love your vids! Very helpful

    I was thinking I would put a GG 1/4" in the foot box of my sleeping bag (using my bag like a quilt until funds allow for an OQ) to keep it from moving around as I have ordered a WBBB 1.7 Single Layer.

    I don't know when my hammock will be here. Anyone know Warbonnets turn around time? I have not even been notified that my order has been received and it has been over a week.

    I am going to try fighting with my air mattresses for a bit while I noodle out my UQ preference. I have a NeoAir Reg. and a Thermarest Pro Lite 4 Reg. to play with, as well as some WalMart blue CCF pads, but I am betting all of the above will be hard to stay on as I tend to toss and turn at night. I understand the toss and turn is less of a problem when hammoching, but to get that benefit, I feel the UQ is the only way to go!

    I don't like cold spots and my base pack weight would be under 14lbs. with a 20* Burrow/Incubator set up. I could live with that. My hold back on the Burrow is I also carry a sit pad and just thought it would be good to multi-purpose it, but not if it is going to be a pain to keep my lower legs and feet warm.

  10. #10
    If they're in stock, about a week. If he has to make them from scratch, about 2 1/2 weeks?

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