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  1. #31

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    Great pictures [o]TTeR! Your pictures turned out pretty good too, Bubba. Wish I could have gotten a close up look at Dan8tro's 12' tarp. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

    Mongrel

  2. #32

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    Looks like it was a great trip! Thanks for sharing.

  3. #33
    Chard's Avatar
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    Sep 2009
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    HH Exped w DIY ZipMod & WBBB
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    I thought it might be helpful if I posted a conversation I was having with another HF member on the subject of winterhanging and extending a -9C bag down to the -25C range. I'd preface all of this by saying that several of the other EGL hangers, with their lofty DIY winter quilts, managed to sleep comfortably even down to -26C. I can honestly still hear their contented snores ringing in my head.

    Some answers (as best I can)

    My insulation...
    Top layer:
    I use a Marmot Sawtooth -9c down bag.

    Bottom Layer:
    For my underquilt I use a DIY full length down quilt with about 4" baffles. It's my 4 season underquilt that I use on my early spring/late fall trips and everything in between.

    What temperature is your underquilt rated down to?

    When I compare my quilt to some of the others of the same dimensions on the market (eg. Jack R Better Mt. Washington (0F - 10F) or Stormcrow's Winter incubator (10F - 20F), I see that they use a slightly better quality down (higher fill power). I'd say that at -25C my underquilt was max'd out. It was keeping me warm, but just barely. That said, maybe if my top had been warmer, it would have felt better.

    With your -9 top quilt and underquilt what temperature do you think you can get down to (comfortably). Assuming you're also wearing some warm base layers, fleeces, wool socks, balaclava as well.

    Well, on the first night, at -18C, I slept perfectly. In addition to my down bag and quilt I had some extras. On my head I was wearing a thin balaclava pulled down over my nose and a detachable down filled hood from a down jacket. On my body I was wearing a pair of midweight fleece trackpants, briefs, a thermal top long sleeved shirt and a pair of thick, loose fitting wool hiking socks I reserve for sleeping only. Stuffed into my sleeping bag went a twin sized thin fleece blanket, a wool sweater and a light poly-insulated jacket. My down vest was above my head and I don't think I pulled it in on the first night, although I definitely did for the second. On both nights I had a thick wool sweater as a butt pad. It was slow to warm up, but eventually evened everything out.

    In hindsight, I think I could have done a better job on the second night by taking advantage of my winter coat by sliding it over my feet and using it as a footbox cover. Also, on the second night I went to sleep with slightly tighter socks and cold feet. I don't think my feet had a chance to warm up the down very much. I did an experiment and took the socks off of one of my feet, kicked my down vest to the footbox for extra insulation and was amazed that a little while later my foot was actually warmng up a bit. More prep time in front of the fire next time.

    At -26, would you recommend having both a sleeping bag and underquilt which are rated to -26? Or is it ok for the top insulation to be not rated that low as long as you have a good underquilt?

    Well, given what I said above, I think you can get away with a topquilt that's slightly lighter than your underquilt because you can always supplement it with extra insulation. A good down vest or fleece/wool blanket will go a long way towards boosting it's warmth. My lesson learned was not so much that I need a new winter bag, but that I need a lighter down summer bag that I can use as a liner. I don't plan on doing a lot of deep winter camping, and for me the expense of buying or making a winter topquilt doesn't make sense.

    My subsequent follow-up
    Yeah, I think I'm a two bagger. For my money, a -30C bag just wouldn't get enough use to warrant the cost. A second bag, on the other hand, could be the light weight summer ultralight bag I've been looking for a reason to get. Having a synthetic outer bag also makes sense from a condensation point of view, but don't forget the frost bib!
    Although I could have added a few degrees by adding a quilt cover, there's really not much else you can do to boost it's performance besides strapping a second underquilt on. One thing is absolutely critical is that your underquilt suspension keep it snugly against the bottom of your hammock. ANY gaps will form coldspots. I can't stress enough the importance of this. I went so far as to supplement my standard end to end straps with ones that went up and over my hammock's ridgeline. It's critical to keep that underquilt in contact with the hammock and to make sure the ends are tight enough to not allow much (if any) air in or out.

    A frost bib is also important. I mentioned that after the -25C night if felt as if some had sprayed a cup of water on the material around my head and upper chest. It was so damp that I doubt it would have provided much in the way of insulation if I had to stay a third night. Not good! I need to figure out something that'll cover my head (if possible) all the way to my sternum. No I had the zipper on my Hennessy mostly closed, and it was covered in a layer of frost. Perhaps if I had left it wide open, I may have vented better. I'll have to try it out next time.

    Finally, just as insurance, I'll be bringing along a couple of those chemical hand warmers, just to stuff in my socks if things get really bad.
    Last edited by Chard; 02-24-2012 at 11:40.
    Survival is about getting out alive, Bushcraft is about going in to live

    Upcoming EGL Hangs: Winter Backcountry 2014. For EGL notifications, subscribe to the EGL Hang Notification Thread
    EGL Trip Reports: Feb 2014, Spring 2013, Fall 2012, Winter 2012, Fall 2011, Video: Algonquin - Spring 2011 - Part 1 of 2

  4. #34
    [o]TTeR's Avatar
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    Just for the record, I don't Snore
    "I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
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  5. #35
    Bubba's Avatar
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    May 2010
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    Without my CPAP, I know I snore. It keeps away the critters
    Don't let life get in the way of living.

  6. #36
    Jayson's Avatar
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    Sorry to break it to everyone but....you all snore....except me!

  7. #37
    dant8ro's Avatar
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    Jul 2010
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    I personally had a lot of fun on this one! I'm really happy with my DIY (with semi-pro help) underquilt. The 12' Hardrock was perfect. It kept me sealed up with doors and gave me room for my spreader bars (bridge hammock).

    Once Ryvr get his next ultra top secret prototype off, I think I'm going to build a dedicated winter hammock with integrated quilt setup.

    I always enjoy these challenging trips. I think were going to have to retire "Nintendo Hard" and move on to "Chard Hard" lol.

    Dan.

    P.s. Tim! You owe me more professionally finished shots of that Tarp! Let me know when your free and we can setup in the park. I'm willing to do up some steaks by way of payment.


  8. #38
    Senior Member Ryvr's Avatar
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    Aug 2010
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    Hey what was wrong with the "WASH ME" pic
    When you discard arrogance, complexity, and a few other things that get in the way, sooner or later you will discover that simple, childlike, and mysterious secret known to those of the Uncarved Block: Life is Fun.

  9. #39
    [o]TTeR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dant8ro View Post
    I personally had a lot of fun on this one! I'm really happy with my DIY (with semi-pro help) underquilt. The 12' Hardrock was perfect. It kept me sealed up with doors and gave me room for my spreader bars (bridge hammock).

    Once Ryvr get his next ultra top secret prototype off, I think I'm going to build a dedicated winter hammock with integrated quilt setup.

    I always enjoy these challenging trips. I think were going to have to retire "Nintendo Hard" and move on to "Chard Hard" lol.

    Dan.

    P.s. Tim! You owe me more professionally finished shots of that Tarp! Let me know when your free and we can setup in the park. I'm willing to do up some steaks by way of payment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryvr View Post
    Hey what was wrong with the "WASH ME" pic
    Owe?? no retainer, no debt but I'm happy take more shots if the "Wash Me" isnt good enough . If your free, you can join me on a hike through Laurelwood Creek this afternoon, bring your snowshoes. Laurelwood will make a better backdrop, plus I'm looking for Bushcraft supplies, Molly and I are working on a couple of projects including this Bird House.



    I'm seriously thinking about picking up one of the Hardrock tarps myself, what are your thoughts on it as a 3-season (-Summer) solution?
    Last edited by [o]TTeR; 02-26-2012 at 15:58.
    "I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
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  10. #40
    dant8ro's Avatar
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    Pardon the phrasing buddy, it was meant to be playful. No debts of course.

    I didn't read the threads today, but I'm sure we'll get together for a hike some time soon (I hope laurel wood was relaxing).

    I think that the hard rock would make a great three season shelter. The 11' model has fewer guy out points if your interested in the simplicity ( not to mention it would cut down on the "bat cowl" look. I like the way that the extra guy out gives a little more stability for the winter setup. The spreaders make this setup ideal for bridge dwelling, but I imagine that they would provide some sweet shoulder room for a rainy day, Paul also includes tie backs under the tarp to move the hammock back out of the way.

    I'm sure you'll get another close look before you make up your mind.

    Dan.

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