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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catavarie View Post
    I can't speak to the first question, but I can guess that the answer to the second question is cost. The material is $60 per yard. While, I'm sure it is doable you'd be looking at around $500 (guessing based off rough eyeball estimates) just for material (before shipping) to build it entirely out of the WP/B Cuben.
    I'm sorry, i should have clarified that I was asking about the later design highlighted in post #146. In the video, hangnout shows a silnylon/DriDucks version.

    Non-cuben WP/B fabric is significantly cheaper, though still more expensive than Sil. GORE-TEX brand 3-layer WP/B fabric can be had for about $25/yd from Rockywoods. Other brands and generics can be had for as low as $8.50/yd on sale but an average of about $16. While still expensive, it's certainly within reason for someone to spend ~$150 on a 4-season WP/B shelter (that was the original intent right? I can't find the original thread).

    I guess the biggest balancing act would be weight. WP/B fabric is generally 4-5oz per square yard, where 1.1 silnylon is about 1.4oz. A fully WP/B shelter could easily be 4lbs making it too much gear for some (most?) people.

    So, I'll modify my second question, since I think this is what I really wanted to ask anyway:

    Assuming that weight and cost weren't factors, are there technical reasons why a fully WP/B Dirigible wouldn't work?

    ETA: Forgot to say, Thanks for the response Catavarie!
    Last edited by cloudedice; 01-04-2013 at 10:23. Reason: Added politeness :)

  2. #152
    MedicineMan's Avatar
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    cloudedice,
    I'm waiting anxiously for any news on the AirShip because I hope to get 'winter' time it is and then progress with it into the spring. It shouldn't be long though before I can give it its due.
    Yes many many nights in socks now. I think I'm right at 40 nights in either the Dirigible or the Graf. But since I've been in the Graf Poof has been in the Dirigible and we've gathered good info because she and I are different sleepers in regard to moisture output.
    I guess you already figured out that almost every sock out there has condensation/single wall tent issues. It is the hard reality of enclosed spaces that are warmed then filled with a gas full of moisture, then pushing that moisture laden air against a cold surface.
    I say almost because I can't speak for the cotton socks like are used in the super cold north; and has already been pointed out our area of southwest Va/east TN/western NC is an especially challenging environment.
    So the differences between the two socks I've been testing (Graf and Dirigible) has moved from a direct comparison of just the two socks, to a sock with a 'wet' breather -Poof, and a sock with a much less 'wet' breather -Me.
    We've also noted and pointed out what we're calling CPC=contact point condensation.
    This phenomenon is nothing new and almost everyone who remembers canvas tents of the past (for me in Scouting years ago) knows that when in a canvas tent in the rain and you put a finger on the canvas it begins to leak there.
    Well the cuben/waterproof-breathable cuben does not leak but over the night if your sleeping bag touches the material condensation will more likely happen there.
    Poof has had more condensation in the sock with the most breathable cuben, proving at least to us that she puts out more moisture through the night....we'd have guessed that because she puts off more moisture when climbing the hills with a backpack too.

    So condensation is something to think about and deal with. I read about it happening with the latest Warbonnet sock. I experienced it in a very frozen form with the MacIX sock in the guise of a mini-snow shower inside the sock when I woke up at 9F and tapped the inside of the sock. So one question begs to be answered by most any potential sock user--how much condensation can you deal with?

    After all is said and weighed (and weight is hugely important to consider) I'm converted to sock use. For me the condensation is so far minimal--thought I can
    tell with approx. 12 nights in the Graf that the amount of w/b cuben is now at its
    minimum for even me a 'dry' breather.....and yes the amount of moisture you put off
    breathing is considerably more than what transpires off the skin.

    So this could lead into a giant epistle on methods of dealing with condensation but that would also (a good thing) lead to proper use of a sock and luckly both the Graf and the Dirigible were provided by HNO's great design many ways of using based on the conditions you find yourself in.
    Example, on one of the Smokies hikes it ended up above 40F at bedtime...well my sock is also my tarp so the tarp portion was deployed but the sock portion was simply pulled to the side and staked down forming the other side of the tarp....
    Compare this example to the time on Mt.Sterling when I didn't have quite the insulation I needed and fully battened down the tarp portion wrapping it around the hammock fully enclosing the whole enchilada. Even in this mode I had little condensation but I bet if Poof had been in it a different story would have emerged.

    When I look back at sock use there was on the time when the temps were 97F and up that I've not used one. That said I'm eager for the Roan Higher/Colder hang to see how either the Graf or the Dirigible ....or if we're lucky... the AirShip performs fullen enclosed in single digits.

    When do socks really shine? We'll you've read about and HNO and I've both pointed out that its greatest feature is the 'one-bag' solution and the super super quick set up time. Another place it shines is in huge winds just because they are so aero and because of less lines to deal with in the wind and when packing up.
    Condensation and wind though really go well together-even when fully battened down, wind just helps more moisture.
    Speaking of. I keep a fan running in an enclosed room..like moving water is harder to freeze, moving air is harder to condense

    Methods to deal with condensation. OK, not wanting to write a tome here. Know this, with the HNO sock models you have various degrees of enclosing. Enclose as much or as little as you want or as the environment dictates...the more you enclose the greater the chance of precipitate. VBS=vapor barrier suits could be used (though I hate them), the SBC=Shug Breath Catcher will help enormously.
    I could go on and on.
    Thanks for your interest in this project. It really has been fun and of great learning. Hopefully that will continue in the 3rd gen sock. I bet HNO will get to this thread eventually and tell us progress.

  3. #153
    Senior Member turtleburger's Avatar
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    I need one, any new info?

  4. #154
    MAD777's Avatar
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    Video: Hang-n-Out Dirigible

    Quote Originally Posted by turtleburger View Post
    I need one, any new info?
    I heard and unconfirmed rumor that a new version upgrade is coming out soon! No proof of that though.
    Mike
    "Life is a Project!"

  5. #155
    MedicineMan's Avatar
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    Rumors of the AirShip? Not rumor anymore. I'll be using it in the Savage Gulf in 9 days.

  6. #156

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    Re: Video: Hang-n-Out Dirigible

    Quote Originally Posted by MedicineMan View Post
    Rumors of the AirShip? Not rumor anymore. I'll be using it in the Savage Gulf in 9 days.
    Video to follow?

  7. #157
    MAD777's Avatar
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    Video: Hang-n-Out Dirigible

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudedice View Post
    Video to follow?
    Do you have any doubt?
    Mike
    "Life is a Project!"

  8. #158
    MedicineMan's Avatar
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    HA ! MAD that hurts me.
    Yeah this trip coming up has several debuts.
    The AirShip as mentioned above and a couple of us will be sporting
    Zimmerbuilt packs specific to onebagging/hammocking. Three of us are
    doing group cooking spreading out the weight of a WindPro II so we'll see how
    that goes. And I'll be experimenting with a Sony TX30 comparing/contrasting
    with the aging Coolpix. One more thing (if the postal service can get their act
    straight) I'll be testing is a new quilt set out of the waterproof down. I have a mild
    down allergy so I have high hopes that the company who makes this down is true
    in their claims of hypoallergenicity.

    The AirShip is the culmination of almost 60 tot. nights in W/B socks now going over
    4 seasons of use and 4 seasons of conditions ranging from 93F to 8F, from mild winds
    to 40+ gales on Roan. From the sodden bogs of Mendenhall to rolling fog banks on the C/O. I'm sure there are environmental conditions where I haven't used the w/b sock (artic) but it might get a taste of the desert in a couple of months.
    For me it is no longer theory, it's part of my backpacking/paddlecamping/bikecamping style now.
    The only time I wouldn't use the sock and didn't was when it was 97F last summer-I will still be carrying it, just if it gets that hot I will just pull the hammock out of the lower portion and treat the entire sock as a tarp. With the AirShip weight less than 14 ounces I don't grimace at that considering a cuben tarp is 7-8 ounces, an undercover 6 or 7.
    As some posters have mentioned on another sock thread there is condensation to deal with, for some more than others. Personally the amounts have been insignificant and after so many nights in the HNO series of sock I can say there are ways to minimize it and just so many things hammocking there is a learning curve and there is always the environment and placement that contribute.

  9. #159
    MAD777's Avatar
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    Video: Hang-n-Out Dirigible

    Hey MM, I love your videos and looking forward to this one.

    The MSR WindPro has been my favorite way to melt snow for years. Can't wait to see the latest incarnation of the AirShip. Hangnout has a great imagination!
    Mike
    "Life is a Project!"

  10. #160
    Dave-O's Avatar
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    +1 on the AirShip video. I can't wait to see it.

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