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  1. #41
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    It would be great to let "sleeping dogs lie" and put to rest this entire discourse re: HH's primarily Chinese manufacture and the arguable lack of disclosure. Certainly this wonderful forum should be devoid of politics. Deceptive advertising and lack of disclosure is not about politics.

    Tom's reply is also deceptive; the "screen shot" is a test page he forwarded to me, to mollify an earlier request of where these hammocks are made. It was never included in his searchable URL. Where is the accurate information he professes ? Last time I looked, non existant.

    The irony is that while more of HH's hammocks are made in China the list gets larger while his information gets sketchier.

    My entire motivation is to move HH to simply and openly disclose facts surrounding what I bought from them under other pretenses.

    Here's the argumentum misericordium: If you don't think that buying Chinese goods are contrary to all that (I assume) we hold "dear" then I hope you don't have kids that like what we do.

    Rick (Daibutsu)

  2. #42
    Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daibutsu View Post
    Deceptive advertising and lack of disclosure is not about politics.

    ... snip ...

    If you don't think that buying Chinese goods are contrary to all that (I assume) we hold "dear" then I hope you don't have kids that like what we do.

    Rick (Daibutsu)
    I seem to sense a disconnect between those two statements.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    We talked about that in the moderator's forum. There are a couple other interesting things too, like two other usernames associated with this one. Still - assuming his post is accurate, he didn't say anything outright inflamatory or just throw out some unfounded mudslinging, so we decided that his post is on topic and should stay.
    I think I'd have to play the BS card on anyone who has aliases on a board. Multiple user names associated with a single IP is generally indicative of someone who is stirring merde. What is the OP hiding?

    Back on topic kinda sorta: I'm not sure what all of the hullabaloo is about with offshore manufacturing. Let's face it - for many products you cannot get a quality made item ONSHORE at a competitive price. You can argue many different viewpoints but in the end, the market will decide. The only issue is truth in advertising and as long as the seller is upfront about that then each individual should make the choice they deem necessary for their own purchases. Regardless of TH's other business practices, it appears he has been upfront about products being made offshore. At some point, if other sellers are able to offer genuine made in USA products that are close enough in functionality at competitive cost points AND the market genuinely wants made in USA products that seller will win. If, like most categories, people vote for a combination of quality and cost, then the guy that figures out the best combination will win. It's not politics, it's simple **** arithmetic!

  4. #44
    Senior Member oldsoldier's Avatar
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    Glad to see someone else sticking up for HH. My experience with them has been stellar, regardless of where the products are made. I said it before & will say it again; the majority of the products we use each day are made overseas. If this bothers you, buy locally. If it doesnt, buy globally. This thread, IMHO, should be closed...its really doing nothing but stirring the pot.

  5. #45
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    This isn't about politics; what happens in China, happens in China. (Setting all that freedom stuff aside ) Environmentally and economically what happens in China, happens here. The second to last post, last line, summarizes it for me.

    "In the end though it doesn't matter what I or any other individual likes or dislikes. The success of a product will be decided by the majority in the market who buy it or don't."

    HH give me the facts, without subterfuge; allow forums like this to allow people to know there are American manufacturers that have to compete on an uneven playing field. HH has not been upfront about where products are made.

    The outdoors we vicariously think about while discussing buckles and box stitching is being eroded by a neighbor that has little regard for it, all the while we are promoting our own erosion.

    In reply, too, to that earlier post:

    If you want issues let's revisit Tom Hennessey's patent wars;

    "this is nothing more than Hennessy has done - protect the products that his business depends on for its survival. And, as a matter of principle I support any businessman who does this. Why should they not protect what they have thought of, built or created through ingenuity and hard work"

    Are you a 'ringer' for HH?
    Last edited by daibutsu; 09-09-2008 at 19:39.

  6. #46
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    This is getting ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by daibutsu View Post
    This isn't about politics; what happens in China, happens in China. (Setting all that freedom stuff aside ) Environmentally and economically what happens in China, happens here. The latest post, last line, summarizes it for me.

    "In the end though it doesn't matter what I or any other individual likes or dislikes. The success of a product will be decided by the majority in the market who buy it or don't."

    HH give me the facts, without subterfuge; allow forums like this to allow people to know there are American manufacturers that have to compete on an uneven playing field.

    The outdoors we vicariously think about while discussing buckles and box stitching is being eroded by a neighbor that has little regard for it, all the while we are promoting our own erosion.

    In reply, too, to the last post:

    If you want issues let's revisit Tom Hennessey's patent wars;

    "this is nothing more than Hennessy has done - protect the products that his business depends on for its survival. And, as a matter of principle I support any businessman who does this. Why should they not protect what they have thought of, built or created through ingenuity and hard work"

    Are you a 'ringer' for HH?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiredFeet View Post
    This is getting ridiculous.
    You are right, it is getting ridiculous. Looks like someone pulled my post above. Since I don't have a PM from a mod I'll assume it has to do with board politics and this is their usual manner of operating.

    To answer the question, no I'm not a ringer for HH. I do happen to own one HH though. What I am is a business owner who understands economics - both locally and globally. I also understand companies that rip off ideas and circumvent intellectual property rights.

    From the statements regarding an uneven playing field it is also obvious that no one will dissuade the emotional allegations that keep being spewed forth here.

    I'm done.

  8. #48
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    To all -

    I'm closing this thread. Despite the contentious nature of the original post, and that it was posted from a new member in the first post, it brought up a good point of discussion and is certainly relevant for discussion in this forum. A valid topic shouldn't be avoided entirely just because it is sensitve - instead it should just be treated lightly. Sadly, though, the discussion has wandered and devolved. At this point I think it's best to just put it to bed, so to speak.

    It's often very hard to prevent one's opinions from leading to off-topic commentary, especially on a topic like this one. That has led to some emotionally fueled posts, several of which wandered off-topic into pure political discourse. The most obvious of those charged posts were removed by Just Jeff. He did so unapologetically, and I stand behind his decision to do so. While I think he would have been well served to PM the members whose posts are removed, that was his own discretion.

    Concerning the source of the original post - yes, it was created by a member that has multiple forum logins. The only reason that it wasn't pulled on that merit alone - we didn't realize it at the time. That fact only came to light once the discussion was well advanced. Be assured, though, that it is being looked into and steps have been taken to assure that multiple logins won't be a problem again.

    If this thread closure rubs anyone the wrong way, I apologize. Feel free to PM me directly and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

    That all being said - I hope the original topic comes up again in a few months. It would be interesting to get updated info on this later, only hopefully with more caution and less emotion.
    I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt. - Cormac McCarthy

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