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  1. #1
    Senior Member Frost's Avatar
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    Toggle Length And Material

    I've heard some folks mention using carbon arrow shafts for toggles, and it so happens I work in a sporting goods store that cuts arrows to length.

    I snagged a couple dozen pieces in the 3-5" range that are from arrows with a 60-80 pound spine. About the heaviest they make. How long are toggles typically? I could get hundreds of them in the 2-3" range. The longer ones are a bit less common.

    Are these arrows suitable, at least for smaller guys like me (Under 175lbs)?

    If - if he stood! Enough of ifs!
    He knew a path that wanted walking
    He knew a spring that wanted drinking
    A thought that wanted further thinking.
    A love that wanted re-renewing

    "A Lone Striker" Robert Frost

  2. #2
    HeathC's Avatar
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    Yes those arrows should be fine. Remember objects get stronger the shorter they get. Think about arrows. The spine changes the shorter you cut it. 3" toggles are the average. Unless you plan on doing summersaults in it (like my 5 year old was doing this weekend...haha). He also learned how to flip over. Just make sure you file/sand off any burs so they don't snag your slings.

    I'm 225lbs and I used to use pine dowels and they held fine. They just started looking like an hour glass after a while so I swapped to cotter pins.
    Last edited by HeathC; 07-11-2012 at 00:07. Reason: spell check
    It's a hammock thing, you won't understand!

    The wife no longer kicks me out of bed after she saw a hammock hanging in the dog house.

  3. #3
    STinGa's Avatar
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    I have been using my carbon fiber arrow shaft toggles for about a year now and have not noticed any wear on them (I am 195 lbs). I picked them up at a sporting goods store as 5 - 7" trimmings and re-cut them to about 3" long. Just remember, make sure to hang on the knot, not the toggle.

    STinGa
    Sarcasm is a dying art.

    Eagle Scout September '85 Troop 339 Smyrna, TN

  4. #4
    New Member Fish_man's Avatar
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    I wonder if I went to one of the sporting good stirred near me if they would give me their garbage lol their garbage would be my treasure lol

  5. #5
    Senior Member Frost's Avatar
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    Fish_man, Dunham's, Gander Mountain, Cabela's, and ****'s Sporting Goods all cut arrows to length if you buy them in the store. Whether the trimmings end up somewhere that's accessible after they're finished is another story. At Dunham's all our trimmings ended up straight in the trash because of where the arrow saw was (out in a visible area). At ****'s, our trimmings will often pile up for a day or two as it's back in the work shop where nobody cares about a mess.

    You're coming in to the big time of year for archery sales and the like, and on average I'm cutting 1-2 dozen arrows a day at my rather small store. Of those, probably 50% leave trimmings that are longer than 3". I'm sure if you put a bug in somebody's ear and made really nice, they'd snag you a few chunks out of the garbage can or off the floor of the shop. There are often broken/reject arrows floating around they might even chop up for you, if you're really good at buttering them up.

    Or, you could just watch the PIF thread, as I'm about to post several of them.

    If - if he stood! Enough of ifs!
    He knew a path that wanted walking
    He knew a spring that wanted drinking
    A thought that wanted further thinking.
    A love that wanted re-renewing

    "A Lone Striker" Robert Frost

  6. #6
    ZMad2000's Avatar
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    I used to use arrow shafts that were carbon fiber with aluminum but have "upgraded"to ti toggles(not from Dutch). They are around 3" in length and now i dont have to worry about being on the toggle or the knot. The only down side is that they weigh a bit more.

  7. #7
    Mikeinajeep's Avatar
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    Are you not using the knot as your anchor point?(I'm funny) the toggle only stops the knot from coming undone, so arrow shafts should hold up a dump truck. I just use found twigs most of the time and I have yet in break one.
    Carpe noctem!!

  8. #8
    ZMad2000's Avatar
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    I am 250lbs and i think weight is transferred to the toggle but only a small amount of the total weight. Where are the math/physics people to show this???

  9. #9
    Senior Member Frost's Avatar
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    Ok, I've been doing some reading, and here's what I've found.

    I'm tinkering with a toggle in a Lark's Head knot right now, and the toggle is anchoring a barrel knot that can slide up and down the rope above it. This setup would put more force on the toggle itself than how most folks use a toggle with a whoopie or the like, but not nearly as much as actually suspending the hammock straight from the toggle.

    Shearing forces are what you have to avoid with a tubular structure (or really any object). Fulcrum on one side, and weight on the other will crush a carbon fiber shaft pretty easily. In fact, a few experiments here at the house suggest that as little as 40lbs stacked on a carbon shaft that's sitting on the point of a right angle will fracture it.

    Now, if you were to tie a toggle to your tree by the center, then suspend the hammock straight from the toggle with a loop that put force on both ends of the toggle, you've got that shearing force, and you're just asking for a bruised tailbone and a fractured ego. When used properly, there's still a whole lot of force on the toggle, but it is transferred to it in a completely different manner, and you get instead a circumferential force that is trying to crush the toggle from all sides uniformly.

    If you've ever tried to crush an egg with your bare hand, you know how much stronger it is than if you hit it with a knife or the like.

    So that is why you a) always suspend your hammock from the knot, and b) why you can get away with very weak toggles if you do it properly.

    If - if he stood! Enough of ifs!
    He knew a path that wanted walking
    He knew a spring that wanted drinking
    A thought that wanted further thinking.
    A love that wanted re-renewing

    "A Lone Striker" Robert Frost

  10. #10
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    thank you! That was very educational. I always get a bit nervous when I use sticks, but this is good to know.

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