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  1. #41
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BER View Post
    Jeff,
    Per the MadTree website, the Tarseer weighs 1150g or 40.6 oz. With net 1210g or 42.6 oz.
    A pair of 30F quilts will run ~ 36 oz. Plus need a +2 oz hood. So another 4 or 5 oz for the hammock and suspension!

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    One thing I've noticed with mine, though, is that the fabric stretches over time. My favorite hammock started out as a 20F or so, but the hammock body has stretched under my butt enough to reduce the amount of insulation there...so now it's about a 30F hammock at that spot. I solve this simply by using a little longer leg pad since this hammock only has torso-length insulation, so it's no big deal. Have you tested your design for a length of time that's long enough to see if you'll get this issue?
    I never thought of that potential problem!
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  2. #42
    New Member MadTree's Avatar
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    Jeff, as BER already said Tarseer weights 1150g without mosquito net and 1210g with the net. Both weights include suspension.

    The baffles of the "UQ" are indeed sewn directly to the weight bearing fabric of the hammock creating total of two fabric layers and down between them. I'm not sure why would you expect there to be air gaps, The top insulation is also sewn directly to the weight bearing fabric from its sides and with footbox and hood it creates completely enclosed space in same fashion as in a sleeping bag. If you mean how we make sure that the down doesn't cluster up under your rear area, we have baffles running across the hammock (and top insulation) as well as lengthwise to keep down from moving along the length of the hammock.

    Tarseer has only been around for half a year so although we have been using and testing it a lot we can't really speak for long term use. So far we have not noticed any stretch. However we did also have concerns about this matter which is part of the reason why tarseer was designed with sleepers weight being supported as evenly as possible along the entire length of the hammock.

    Billy (and why not everyone else as well) As there is not as far as I'm aware standardized temperature rating system for hammock insulation similar to system used with sleeping bags, I think it's best compare quality and amount of insulation between different products rather than the given temperature ratings. One manufacturer might have a very different idea about 30F comfort than an other. However this is not to say that I'd think weight estimations for setup described by you would be incorrect in any way.
    Last edited by MadTree; 08-09-2012 at 12:01.

  3. #43
    dakotaross's Avatar
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    I would think that zero-C is more like a summer setup for you in Finland. What about going colder? I mean, I'm sure you're conservative in your rating, but what would you recommend for going to below 20-F for example (since I don't know what that is in C)? A pad? I presume that your setup might work well with a pad.

  4. #44
    K0m4's Avatar
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    Terve MadTree, I woke up with a thought. Would it be possible and/or desirable to make the hammock with zippered-on top insulations, and offer your choice of summer, 3-season, and winter rated top insulation, that you could zip on as conditions change? It would probably increase the weight a tiny bit with the zipper weight, but it would increase versatility.

  5. #45
    New Member ghpacific's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K0m4 View Post
    Terve MadTree, I woke up with a thought. Would it be possible and/or desirable to make the hammock with zippered-on top insulations, and offer your choice of summer, 3-season, and winter rated top insulation, that you could zip on as conditions change? It would probably increase the weight a tiny bit with the zipper weight, but it would increase versatility.
    I second this excellent idea. Also wondering about using goretex or similar material on top and incorporating a pad on the bottom like Big Agnes does with their sleeping bags or sleeve for a pad on the bottom. Otherwise this looks like an excellent design. Would like a review though of a side sleeper spending a night in one. If you need someone to test one in the Sierras, let me know.

  6. #46
    New Member MadTree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dakotaross View Post
    I would think that zero-C is more like a summer setup for you in Finland. What about going colder? I mean, I'm sure you're conservative in your rating, but what would you recommend for going to below 20-F for example (since I don't know what that is in C)? A pad? I presume that your setup might work well with a pad.
    Well I think it's fair to say that 30F setup covers 3 seasons in finland, if you take a look at these two links you can see the average low temperatures for each month. First link is on the south coast, the next on very northmost (69 degrees north) finland.
    http://www.finland.climatemps.com/#en-table
    http://www.karasjok.climatemps.com/#en-table

    On south coast 30F comfort would cover April to Novermber and in northmost Finland May to September.


    For going colder (twenties) I'd probably just wear some warm clothing and wooly socks to bed, for colder than that a closed cell pad and maybe even an additional down top quilt would come into play. Also hot water bottles are a very neat trick in subzero temps. You get warmer quickly which it makes it easier to fall asleep plus you've got liquid water to drink in the morning.

    K0m4, it's definitely an idea! Few things pop into my mind that would need some consideration. Firstly there's the weight, to completely separate the quilt from the hammock you would need one long zipper, say your hammock's 2m long and 0.5m wide, total length for the zip would be 5m! ykk #5 zipper weights 19g/m so this alone would add nearly 100g (3.5oz).
    Also zippers don't insulate so there might be a problem with heat leakage through the long zipper, of course you could device an insulated zip guard but at 5m long it would probably add an other 100g. Weather you could save more weight in warmer conditions with less insulation is questionable.

  7. #47
    K0m4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadTree View Post
    K0m4, it's definitely an idea! Few things pop into my mind that would need some consideration. Firstly there's the weight, to completely separate the quilt from the hammock you would need one long zipper, say your hammock's 2m long and 0.5m wide, total length for the zip would be 5m! ykk #5 zipper weights 19g/m so this alone would add nearly 100g (3.5oz).
    Also zippers don't insulate so there might be a problem with heat leakage through the long zipper, of course you could device an insulated zip guard but at 5m long it would probably add an other 100g. Weather you could save more weight in warmer conditions with less insulation is questionable.
    Yes, there's definitely a weight penalty, and having a flap covering the zipper adds a bit more, but would be needed I think, at least on the covers that are 3-season and winter. Personally though, I would prioritise versatility over a couple of hundred grams, but different horses and all that. I think your whole setup is very light anyway, considering that it's an all-in-one. If I weigh my set-up with hammock, uq and sleeping bag, I think I wind up in the 2,5 kg range...

    Last edited by K0m4; 08-11-2012 at 04:44.

  8. #48
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    Just received an email from Toni that my Tarseer will ship Monday! Yay! It's been a long time since I had a new Hammock to play with. My wife laughed at me when I told her I bought it, then told me she bought a new pair of shoes and shoulder bag...touché.

    In regards to taking the Tarseer in colder weather, I bet one could fashion a weather sock that could fit around the suspension or figure a way to suspend an additional TQ/UQ if the temperatures require such. I will think on these things once I have mine in hand.

    Thank yous to Elias and Toni for all your prompt responses to queries both here and via email.

  9. #49
    dakotaross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadTree View Post
    Well I think it's fair to say that 30F setup covers 3 seasons in finland, if you take a look at these two links you can see the average low temperatures for each month...
    Those temps for the "south" look more like southern New England here. For comparison, I'll offer a location that I think is typically on the mild side for most hikers here...

    http://www.weather.com/weather/wxcli...nthly/USGA0541

    Not to argue with you about temps really, but I want to make a point about what is "3-season" - I'm wondering if there is a difference here that somehow might help you in your business (if not, that's fine, not trying to be a knowitall, etc.) Anyway, if I'm going strictly on avg min temps, then 30F rated gear certainly seems to fit for this Georgia location. However, I'm here to tell you, that I would not take 30F rated gear in the shoulder months of November and March, and April/Oct are risky months also if you're on a longer trip and can't plan for the weather. This is why I say it seems like 30F is summer gear in Finland, only based on geography, not on experience of what its like there. You've got 4 months (in the "south") where the avg min is in the lower half of 50s or in the 40s, meaning I'd better be prepared for the 30s. Otherwise, I'd want to be prepared for 20s in the other shoulder months.

    A lot of "3-season" gear over here is rated to 20F - and I'm not talking about the cheap 15F rated stuff that I wouldn't take out below 40F. So I guess, whether its warranted or not, I think I'd be a little afraid to make such a purchase of gear that is only rated to 30F, no matter how conservative that rating might be. Hopefully, with a few reviews we'll know better about where your gear actually comes in. Might just be a semantics issue.

    I would agree that your all-in-one product seems appropriately priced given similar 3-season gear here if in fact your 30F rating is that conservative. Otherwise, I might question the value. Again, I'm trying to be helpful, not overly critical. And yes, I'm familiar with the hot water bottle method, which is dandy for warming you up to the point where your gear works most efficiently. Not sure I'd say its for extending the temp rating of your gear, unless of course you have a method for keeping the bottle warm for the entirety of the night.

  10. #50
    New Member MadTree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dakotaross View Post
    Hopefully, with a few reviews we'll know better about where your gear actually comes in. Might just be a semantics issue.
    Luckily the winter is coming and we're surely looking forward to seeing people push our products as far as they'll go, hopefully they'll share their experiences too.

    Meanwhile to give you something to compare our rating to Rab infinity 500 sleeping bag has got 500 grams of 850fp (source http://rab.uk.com/) down as insulation whereas we have 510g of 800fp so the insulating qualities of the products should be fairly similar. Rab sleeping bags are rated by EN13537 standard for sleeping bags. The temperature ratings given are:

    Comfort 28F in this temperature one can expect to sleep comfortably.
    Lower Limit 16F in this temperature one can expect to sleep for eight hours in a curled position without waking
    Extreme -17F the minimum temperature at which one can remain for six hours without risk of death from hypothermia (this temperature has nothing to do with the actual conditions you can sleep in)

    All EN13537 temperature ratings assume that the sleeper is wearing single thin base layer.

    More info on EN13537 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_13537
    Most US temperature ratings given by the major sleepingbag manufacturers seem to fall around Lower Limit in EN13537.

    The reason why I'm comparing Tarseer to sleeping bags is that sleeping bags have a standardized system for temperature ratings independent of manufacturers whereas hammocks don't. I realize that in hammock you often are more exposed and we have tried to keep this in mind when giving temperature rating for Tarseer

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