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  1. #11
    Senior Member WetRivrRat's Avatar
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    It's sad to say, but I only share ideas that I'm willing to have 'stolen' because at that point I feel better that I gave it away rather than it was taken from me -
    Often times in my line of work I actually have to be secretive/reclusive about what I'm doing so as to keep what I'm doing to myself until I can get it registered or otherwise associated to my name.
    We all know of the original "Walk off the war" thru-hike - but, check out these guys, they're helping folks 'walk off the war' today -
    Donate to help fund gear for the warriors who are coming back home and need help walking off the war!
    WarriorHike.com

  2. #12

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    If you haven't heard anyone complain about Tom Hennessy's mods, then you simply weren't paying attention. He didn't offer a zippered model until after the Blackbird and 2QZQ were so successful. He didn't offer a two-layer model until other two-layer models (mostly Brandon's) started taking his business. Same as the zipper...he realized other folks' ideas had profit potential for him, so he took his market share back with their ideas.
    I was curious. Brandon is the individual who invented the double layer hammock?

  3. #13
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    Read it again, that's not what was said.


    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
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    “I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order.”
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  4. #14
    mbiraman's Avatar
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    I agree with Hawkeye, AngrySparrow and Jeff.

    So much in life can go sideways because communication and integrity gets lost.

    bill
    " The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it."

    “The measure of your life will not be in what you accumulate, but in what you give away.” ~Wayne Dyer

    www.birchsidecustomwoodwork.com

  5. #15

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    Read it again, that's not what was said.
    I guess you will need to explain to me what was said then. Because when I read that post, it sure sounded like TH was being accused of "intellectual theft".

  6. #16
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    This thread isn't about HH, so I don't want to derail it. I was responding to the first mention of HH that nobody complained when he used others' ideas. There was too much discussion about that, actually...to the point where we had to limit it. He's engaged in a handful of practices that many members here don't agree with.

    Some vendors here give credit by name, or even with money, when they use someone's idea. Other vendors do not. Some vendors improve on an existing concept to make their own product. Others do not improve the product, but copy someone else's mod or product almost exactly as presented.

    Those distinctions are still important to some members of this community. Not to everyone...but everyone decides how to choose where they send their money, so you can decide whether this is important enough to affect your business decisions!
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

    - My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
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    IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER

  7. #17
    Old Gorge Rat Hawk-eye's Avatar
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    You can see by some of the responses to my original post that the integrity of this community still exists and certain values are still important. That's pretty darn nice to know.

    It's also very sad ... as JJ said that we've lost the open sharing of ideas as was found so often in the earlier years. But I understand why it's evolved this way. My original point in this string shows why that has happened.

    The sharing still goes on but a lot of it is off the grid now I'm sure. I've been a part of some of those discussions so I'm sure others are working among themselves on developing new ideas and bouncing thoughts back and forth ... it's just a shame because when it was more open it was a lot of fun to follow the development of an idea even if you weren't directly involved. Spent a lot of nights in crappy hotel rooms with bad connections reading some of those discussions!

    Well I posted to advise and to vent my frustration at an injustice of sorts, that I saw inflicted on a couple of the nicest people I've had to pleasure to become friends with. Not just 2QZQ, but all the folks like Brandon, Adam & Jenny, Dutch (the world's greatest hiker), the JacksRBetter fellers ... have all given a lot to this community and have ethically profited from some of their work. But they've also very freely given back to this community and others as well. By no means is that anything but the short list of folks in this community like that.

    What I've read here since that post yesterday, makes me feel a lot better about the integrety and ethical perspective of the HF community.

    Thanks for that folks ...
    Last edited by Hawk-eye; 08-19-2012 at 07:57.

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  8. #18

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    I think there is a parallel with the software world Microsoft/Linux models. Microsoft is closed and focused in monetizing any and every aspect of the business up to and including buying competitors to control parts of the business. Linux is free as is a lot of the software running on it but credit must be given and support can be charged for. My point is that there are two competing mindsets. One is closed and secretive and one is open and sharing. Most folks never seem to cross over. UK Hammocks violated both schools of thought with copying with no credit and no payment. It would be interesting if they got some local competition. ;-)

    There is another issue that is worth mentioning - iterative engineering. Most design work is really a blend of known ideas balanced to get a particular end product. The only "new" things I am aware of in hammocks is the bottom entry and shelf. I would not be shocked if I found an enclosed hammock with some kind of slit and side pouch from 1880 or so. Good ideas tend to get reinvented as well as discovered.

    Adjusting to moving markets is not generally considered "stealing" when dealing with anything that can be considered existing technology. OTOH using something different has long been the home of the niche market builder. I am not surprised Hennessy added a side zipper after all the complaints about bottom entries in places like here. OTOH I would be surprised if he added a shelf and foot box model or Brandon did a bottom slit. There are a lot of fine lines to dance around.

    As far as some folks having great ideas they are sitting on I would suggest they decide what business model they prefer and either publish to share them or work a deal with one of the cottage vendors to sell them. If they are that good somebody else will come up with it too. ;-)

  9. #19
    WV's Avatar
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    I continue to share my experiments - especially the mistakes - and hope that others will, too.

  10. #20
    but enough about me hppyfngy's Avatar
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    It's always distressing to hear this conversation. I haven't been around here long enough to remember the "glory days," and so far I haven't contributed any ideas that are worthy of being stolen.

    But I won't let scoundrels keep me from sharing any ideas I have, be they worthless or valuable. Innovation will win the day and those who can only copy will be realized for what they are.

    Karma will handle this.

    Hang On!

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