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  1. #21
    Senior Member ringtail-THFKAfood's Avatar
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    No - well maybe

    In cold weather snow is your friend. Water is much easier to manage in the solid state. Snow can be a wind barrier. But most important snow is insulation. I have snow camped with a guy that carries only a 20 degree bag.

    At high altitude tents get a substantial solar temperature gain. On sunny days they turn into mini saunas.

    Ice is evil and offers very little insulation. Snow is your friend.

    If your winters include deep snow then use what nature gives you and make a snow shelter.

    My avatar was taken in January at 11,700 feet.
    Last edited by ringtail-THFKAfood; 10-06-2008 at 16:32. Reason: added thoughts
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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  2. #22
    i put 2 panel pulls on each side of the superfly to provide support in heavy wind, and i've had it up in some pretty heavy wind and it worked really well. (i don't have a wind measuring device yet, so i couldn't say what wind speeds were).

    poles for a hooped design or other would have to be pretty long, i don't know if poles that long would provide that much support without some sort of criscrossing and intersecting like you see on a geodesic mountaineering tent or at least guylines attached mid-pole. regardless, that's alot of tentpoles to carry when you are talking about a 11x10 shelter. you might be better off just having the right amount of panel pulls to provide the support. they're obviously much lighter, and even with poles you would still need to guy them out in the center to provide support if you are talking about a hooped design. even the geodesic designs have mid pole guylines on the poles for support in the heaviest wind. i think putting adequate panel pulls on a large tarp could provide adequate strength. what is adequate for true mountain wind is the question. i'm sending turk a superfly, and from reading some of his previous trip reports, i hope will put it to the test in some serious wind. hopefully the 2 panel pulls per side reinforced with an 8" or so circle patch will prove to be enough. it seems like even with the panel pulls guyed out in heavy wind, most of the force is still on the main pull tabs, but i definately need to do more heavy wind testing to get a better understanding of exactly what's going on.

  3. #23
    Peter_pan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayak karl View Post
    this tent would be set up with back (opposite door) to the wind. with my hammock i put the side to the storm (left side). so if somebody was to build a hammock "tent" the foot or head end should point into the storm.

    just a thought.

    GrizzlyAdams, i think your onto something.
    KK,

    JRB HAmmock Hut does just that, assuming that you pick two trees where the foot of the hammock, or the head for that matter, points into the wind.

    Pan
    Ounces to Grams.

    www.jacksrbetter.com ... Largest supplier of camping quilts and under quilts...Home of the Original Nest Under Quilt, and Bear Mountain Bridge Hammock. 800 595 0413

  4. #24
    Senior Member fin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    I'm imaging one of these tube designs that have hooped geometry, for example (for illustrative purposes) MSR Expedition.

    Grizz
    That was kind of the idea/shape for what I was going for here , but I didn't have carbon fiber poles at the time so the shape wasn't right. I have the poles now - I'll have to post a new pic.
    Last edited by fin; 10-08-2008 at 07:41. Reason: fixed link - changed to album on photobucket

  5. #25
    slowhike's Avatar
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    I've thought quite a bit about this kind of thing since reading Jeff's report about his trip in the Sierras last year.
    Some of the major thoughts that I have are...
    First of course, if there's any way possible, find as much protection from strong winds as possible. It may only be something that will provide a break from the hardest, direct hits of wind, but even that could be a great help.
    But I realize that for various reasons, that may not always be possible. You may find yourself a long ways from any helpful wind breaks & needing to set up camp to get out of the weather.

    In that case, I see two general directions that a person could take with hammock gear.
    One would be a fully enclosed tent with enough ventilation to help with condensation issues.
    I've read several places that mountaineers tend to find tube type tents more reliable in hard winds than dome type tents. That causes me to think about the possibility of a hammock tent that would use three hoop poles if a person thought those kind of conditions would be a possibility.

    The other thought is more along the lines of a tarp with closeable ends (like the Speer Winter Tarp or the JRB Winter tarp) set low & in contact with the ground, using extreme guying methods, along with a "Travel Pod" that would be beatable. The sides would need to be taught & steep to shed spin drift. The steep, taught sides might could be accomplished by storing gear in the bottom of the travel pod to weight it. I experimented with something like that last winter, but didn't get it like I wanted.
    I plan to try again this winter.

    Maybe a combination of the hoop style hammock tent with the travel pod... like a double wall tent.

    This is my tarp over hammock in a pretty windy situation I found myself in last year.

    The winds may have been 30 or 40 mph??? but nothing like Jeff had on his trip. I still had a corner tear part way on that tarp that night.

    That night I was touching the ground because of the cheap, wal-mart webbing I was using & the greater than usual distance of the trees I used, but it turned out not to be a bad option.
    I had the ccf pad & my empty pack between my under quilt & the ground. That & the really low tarp kept the worst of the wind off me, even though the tarp was open on both ends.
    Last edited by slowhike; 10-07-2008 at 21:50.
    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!

  6. #26
    Smee's Avatar
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    4 Season or Extreme Winter Hammocking?

    Just to be a little picky here, but isn't the real question, "Can you use a hammock in extreme winter conditions?" Nobody has made any mention about the other three seasons.

    Are we talking about one set of gear that has the inherent flexibility to be used all year around? A single standard pack load. Or are we talking about a gear locker at home from which you can pick and choose what's needed for a particular trip? And what does that investment look like? How many hammocks? How many quilts? How many Tarps? etc.

    Just thought I'd stir the pot a little.

    Regards,

  7. #27
    Senior Member
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    I am a weather weenie, I admit. However, I'm wondering why a tarp appropriately staked and protected from wind as much as possible via site selection, and a hammock sock over the hammock/underquilt wouldn't provide the needed protection? The hammock sock I'm thinking of would have a bottom made of dwr/cuben/sil (pick one) and the top would have something breathable (1.1 ripstop or even netting). Any snow that gets under the tarp would be caught by the sock. The wind would be blocked. That just leaves limbs falling (a problem with site selection) or the guylines pulling out or the tarp ripping, which would be an issue with tents, too.

    I know from talking to Nest that he feels that the underquilt and sock are why he was able to carry his hammock all the way on his thru hike this year. He said he and Cannibal were the only ones who seemed to be able to deal with the cold on the trail because of their underquilts. He can step in and add to this when he gets back to the forum.
    Bad spellers of the world Untie!

  8. #28
    the cold can be dealt with. we were specifically discussing what is needed "to be confident" in hanging through a sever winter storm. (extremely high winds and ground blizzard conditions). it is pretty much accepted that one can hang confidently in the "other 3 seasons" with proper gear.

  9. #29
    Smee's Avatar
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    4 Season Hammocking

    That's the point!

    With the "proper gear" you can hang in a blizzard.

    Turk's experience last year was a fair demonstration of that - although he had his issues too. The point is the proper gear for the winter blizzard is not the proper gear for summer. And the proper gear for summer is not the proper gear for the shoulder seasons. And what about monsoons or any other special weather.

    And what about when the weather catches you by surprise? Knowing you're going out in a blizzard and being prepared for it versus going out for a late fall or early winter hang and getting caught by surprise are two extremely different situations.

    So what does a complete 4 Season gear locker look like? And is it man portable or does it require sleds like Turk used? Are we car camping in January at Mt Rogers or hiking into the wilderness?

    Can you do it? Sure you can with the "proper gear"! Do you routinely carry the "proper gear"?

    Regards,

  10. #30
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    Yes, Smee - that's a better way to phrase the question. Winter tents are sold as "four season" tents even though they're more appropriate for winter only b/c it's "too much protection" for summer. So yeah - extreme winter conditions is what I was talking about, and I wouldn't carry this gear for summer conditions.

    Are we there already? I think we may be close, depending on how much effort you're willing to put into site selection. (Taken to an extreme, walking down off the mountain could be considered better "site selection.") Is some sort of hammock sock or bivy necessary? I know it helps me stay warm and feel more confident, and it would have kept me in my hammock at Winnemucca, but these aren't available commercially yet. The Hammock Hut and the winter tarps are huge leaps forward for most winter conditions. They wouldn't have survived my site at Winnemucca but I think I could have relocated to a less exposed site on that mountain without much effort where these would have been good enough.

    And obviously Turk's experiences show the progress being made towards winter hammocking.

    I think we proved long ago that hammocking is feasible in all seasons for the conditions most hikers will encounter. But I also think we can still take it further!
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