View Poll Results: Do you like an HHSS, or is it just so/so, or does it stink?

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  • I have tried the HHSS but was not warm even at 40- 50F, it is not a good system.

    5 8.33%
  • I tried it and had to much condensation, so it is not for me.

    5 8.33%
  • I tried it and have not had any significant condensation problems.

    15 25.00%
  • Condensation was manageable, and I was warm down to 40F with the basic system.

    14 23.33%
  • I was warm to 30F with basic system and condensation was acceptable

    12 20.00%
  • I was warm to about 20F (basic system) and condensation was acceptable

    9 15.00%
  • I have been warm below 20F with the basic system

    5 8.33%
  • I have been warm well below 20F by adding unworn clothing or other insulation in the undercover

    7 11.67%
  • The UC provides significant extra wind/rain/snow/fog protection, which is a big plus!

    19 31.67%
  • I find it to be more than adequate for the money and weight/volume. I like it!

    28 46.67%
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  1. #31
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtwheels View Post
    I was not displeased with the SS performance, that said I am displeased with the SS volume, particularly the volume of the pad. Have you tried other pads? I purchased an 1/8" EVA foam to make an alternative pad from SS pad, thinking the volume would be less. And the the EVA foam may possibly be warmer per thickness (guessing).

    Have you tried the UC & SP combo without the pad with a sleeping bag? I think that may be my next experiment. I am unlikely to get out often in the 30* range, and am looking at a lightweight small volume option. Guess I need quilts.
    Do you mean sleeping in the sleeping bag inside the hammock, with just a space blanket down in the UC? The trouble with that would be, as I'm sure you know already, your body weight compressing the insulation, especially down, so that you would be way warmer on top than on bottom. You would get some warmth from a compressed synthetic bag, a good bit less from down, plus whatever the UC and space blanket would give.

    I have put a sleeping bag or quilt down in the UC, under a space blanket, and it has been very warm. The only problem is a tendency for the elastic UC to compress the insulation in some spots.

    I have used the WM blue CCf pads and the Thermarest Ridgerest, but they don't curve around your body or work nearly as well in the HHSS UC as does the HH ocf pad. They work better sleeping right on top of them, and then they are pretty warm. But I don't think they are any warmer than the HH UC and pad/ space blanket, not as comfy and take up a whole lot more volume than the HH system.

    Have you tried a compression dry or stuff sack with your HH pad? Once just for fun I got my HH pad and the UC back into the sack they came in:


    Now getting it back in there would be way too much hassle for me on the trail, I just squeeze it all down into a dry sack or my pack and compress it way down that way. And I don't try to roll it up tight or compress it with my hands, too easy to polk a hole in it. I put it loosely in a sack 1st, with or without my down clothing, and then compress the sack. Just like I do with a Pea Pod or UQ. ABut it does show how much it can be shrunk down. Way more than any CCF pad I have. In fact, I'm no sure an equally warm and wind proof ( i.e. with an UQ protector ) down UQ would pack down a whole lot smaller.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  2. #32
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    Ive now had two nights with the SS in cold weather. The first was just above freezing, and I was unsheltered from strong winds. This was a few degrees colder than my previous SS experience, so I decided to add a coat (http://www.dickiesstore.co.uk/workwe...ets/SA22045/0/) between the undercover and foam pad. So below me I had:
    * compressed sleeping bag
    * hammock fabric
    * space blanket trimmed to size of foam pad
    * foam pad
    * coat
    * undercover.

    I was colder than expected :-( What I think happened is that the coat allowed a draught underneath me because it was not flat against my body. In addition, the weight of the coat is carried by the undercover and that causes it to sag, further allowing gaps where draught can get in. That seems like a fairly fundamental problem, and Im suprised I havent seet it reported by anyone else who has tried adding extra insulation to the undercover ? ?


    The second night was just below freezing but the winds dropped a little. I removed the jacket and was a little warmer. For me this is right on the limit of a comfortable sleep with the standard SS system and that sleeping bag.


    Ive since had a chance to hang at home, and it is clear that my undercover *always* sags on the right side. I can improve this a little by tightening the bungees running the length of the undercover, and the bungee supporting the right side head end of the underpad. I can also pull the underpad snug against my body by grabbing the edge of the undercover (through the hammock fabric - not easy on a bottom entry model) and tugging upwards. It feels more snug, which would be warmer but I am not confident it would stay in place overnight. In the attached photo I am pointing at it after the tug.

    Billybob wrote about the undercover compressing his insulation - I'm a long way off that being a problem.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #33
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdickenson View Post
    Ive now had two nights with the SS in cold weather. The first was just above freezing, and I was unsheltered from strong winds. This was a few degrees colder than my previous SS experience, so I decided to add a coat (http://www.dickiesstore.co.uk/workwe...ets/SA22045/0/) between the undercover and foam pad. So below me I had:
    * compressed sleeping bag
    * hammock fabric
    * space blanket trimmed to size of foam pad
    * foam pad
    * coat
    * undercover.

    I was colder than expected :-( What I think happened is that the coat allowed a draught underneath me because it was not flat against my body. In addition, the weight of the coat is carried by the undercover and that causes it to sag, further allowing gaps where draught can get in. That seems like a fairly fundamental problem, and Im suprised I havent seet it reported by anyone else who has tried adding extra insulation to the undercover ? ?


    The second night was just below freezing but the winds dropped a little. I removed the jacket and was a little warmer. For me this is right on the limit of a comfortable sleep with the standard SS system and that sleeping bag.


    Ive since had a chance to hang at home, and it is clear that my undercover *always* sags on the right side. I can improve this a little by tightening the bungees running the length of the undercover, and the bungee supporting the right side head end of the underpad. I can also pull the underpad snug against my body by grabbing the edge of the undercover (through the hammock fabric - not easy on a bottom entry model) and tugging upwards. It feels more snug, which would be warmer but I am not confident it would stay in place overnight. In the attached photo I am pointing at it after the tug.

    Billybob wrote about the undercover compressing his insulation - I'm a long way off that being a problem.
    Hi TD,
    so with out adding anything you were right at your limits just below freezing? OK, you and I are about the same. In the past, I have always found the basic system good enough for me right to freezing, though several folks around here seem to be able to take it a lot lower. I can also take it way lower by adding insulation.

    What is the weight of the jacket you placed in the UC? Would you say it is pretty heavy for it's size and thickness? Back in the day I used to caution about that very problem you mentioned having. Obviously, if you put anything in the UC or on top of the pad that is heavy enough to cause it to sag to the point where there is a gap below your back, it not only won't help but you will be cold. On my original model, it was pretty easy to overcome this as the UC and pad attached to an adjustable Prussic, and if it sagged too much- like if I put a 3 lb synthetic sleeping bag down there - I could easily cinch it up tighter. Not so easy with the newer models suspension, but if I had a need for that it would be a simple mod.

    But this has not really been a problem when using my normal backpacking clothes like I might have with me on a hike. Say, a fleece jacket or a down vest or both at the same time. And compression of lightweight down can indeed be a problem, in fact I like to use a fleece jacket with the down vest in an attempt to cause enough sag so it won't compress the down so much, at least in some spots. Sometimes there might appear to be more sag than the loft of the garment can fill up. But once I get in, the hammock sags more than the UC and I sink right down into the added insulation.

    Question: if, while in the hammock and with no jackets added, if you reach down into the UC, is it snug and tight up against the pad and the pad nice and snug up against your back? Even requiring some pushing with your hands to meve the UC away from the pad and your back? Because there should be. If not, something is wrong! And if you have something like a 9 oz down vest even with a 16 oz fleece jacket, all should be snug against your back. And with the down alone, it should be compressed in some spots with normal UC elastic tension.

    But looks like you are well on your way. There is a learning curve with all of this, and at least you were warm to freezing with the basic system, which isn't bad! Any condensation problems? I use a full sized space blanket draped over the edges of the HH pad down into the UC.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 11-04-2012 at 22:34.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  4. #34
    Senior Member Throkda's Avatar
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    I've had similar problems when I tried adding layers to my lighter underinsulation options. Now with more experience under my belt, one thing I would attempt would be to try and rig up some suspension with other cord to hold the extra layers up, putting its weight over the ridgeline, so the original HHSS pad (or insultex UQ) didn't sag under the added weight. Of course, this is only theory, but that would be the first way I'd try to solve the problem.
    "Can't we all just live in trees and hammocks?"
    -- Sam Gribley, My Side of the Mountain

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throkda View Post
    I've had similar problems when I tried adding layers to my lighter underinsulation options. Now with more experience under my belt, one thing I would attempt would be to try and rig up some suspension with other cord to hold the extra layers up, putting its weight over the ridgeline, so the original HHSS pad (or insultex UQ) didn't sag under the added weight. Of course, this is only theory, but that would be the first way I'd try to solve the problem.
    Yes, that will work. Plus, Tddickenson, keep in mind that the pad, at least around the legs, especially the left leg, always has a tendency to gap away from me. Just as it does with most quilts and a Pea Pod when you lay on a diagonal and feet to the right. I don't think this has even caused me any problems as the pad is still in contact underneath my left leg, though not on the left side of my left leg. I guess my top quilt is not compressed on the left side of my left leg, so it provides the warmth. While underneath, the pad is in contact, so I am still warm. But I like a mod like Throdka mentions, to keep it better snugged against my left thigh, which just seems like it would be warmer.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  6. #36
    dirtwheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Do you mean sleeping in the sleeping bag inside the hammock, with just a space blanket down in the UC? The trouble with that would be, as I'm sure you know already, your body weight compressing the insulation, especially down, so that you would be way warmer on top than on bottom. You would get some warmth from a compressed synthetic bag, a good bit less from down, plus whatever the UC and space blanket would give.
    I realize the down bag would compress and not insulate well but with the effectiveness of the SB it does make me curious about using UC and or SB under the hammock, with the 15* bag. Ive got a great Wilderness Logics Summer Under Quilt, (SSUQ) I've had it to 44* with the 15* bag with no sign of problems. And before the HH EXP UL, I experimented with a Byer Mosquito with a 5x7 coated nylon tarp as an UC & a fleece bag to the lo 50*'s comfortably, but never had that combo very low.


    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    I have put a sleeping bag or quilt down in the UC, under a space blanket, and it has been very warm. The only problem is a tendency for the elastic UC to compress the insulation in some spots.
    Were those spots near the bottom opening elastic? That would make sense to me. I haven't really checked anywhere other than directly below my torso within reach of my arm on the zipper side, and it seems sorta loose best I remember, I'll check that soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    I have used the WM blue CCf pads and the Thermarest Ridgerest, but they don't curve around your body or work nearly as well in the HHSS UC as does the HH ocf pad. They work better sleeping right on top of them, and then they are pretty warm. But I don't think they are any warmer than the HH UC and pad/ space blanket, not as comfy and take up a whole lot more volume than the HH system.

    Have you tried a compression dry or stuff sack with your HH pad? Once just for fun I got my HH pad and the UC back into the sack they came in:


    Now getting it back in there would be way too much hassle for me on the trail, I just squeeze it all down into a dry sack or my pack and compress it way down that way. And I don't try to roll it up tight or compress it with my hands, too easy to polk a hole in it. I put it loosely in a sack 1st, with or without my down clothing, and then compress the sack. Just like I do with a Pea Pod or UQ. ABut it does show how much it can be shrunk down. Way more than any CCF pad I have. In fact, I'm no sure an equally warm and wind proof ( i.e. with an UQ protector ) down UQ would pack down a whole lot smaller.
    The softer pad being more flexible makes sense it would conform better. I was able tonight roll the HH pad after folding it about as wide as the original stuff sack, wrapping the shock cords around the pad then slid it in the original sack. But I think that is shock cord abuse and will damage those if repeated often or left that way long term. I think your compression sack idea has merits, but wouldn't you imagine that would require the pad be rolled to a size slightly smaller than the compression sack? You may be persuading me a little on that one. hhhmmmmm.... I've been wanting to try a sea to summit UL compression sack.

    Great.......now I've gotta go dig the SSUQ out and measure and weigh....

    WOW, your idea on the compression is now peaking my interest A LOT...

    The WL SSUQ in @ 14 oz., and in the original stuff sack -measures 12" x 4.5", but could compress more.

    The HH SS pad on the original stuff sack weighs in @ 11 oz., and measures 16.5" x 5" and will also compress more, but how well it will bounce back I really don't know, seems like it should, after all it sprang into shape after escaping the original package. From compressing in the original package I could see getting it down to ~7.5" x 5 - 5.5". The SSUQ would compress to ~ 5" x 4 - 4.5". That said, the 45* rated UQ is only 4.5" shorter uncompressed and 2.5" shorter compressed than the SS, and the SS has a record of successful sub 0* hangs. I may not be as ready as I thought to look for a UQ to replace the SS. HH says the UC weighs 6.5 oz. so that makes the potential sub 0* solution weighs in @ 17.5 oz. not including the SB. An additional 3.5 oz to get to sub zero seems like a great deal all other considerations aside. Add to that that the SS retails @ $149 and a Hammock Gear 0* full length UQ will set ya' back $264 and weighs in @ ~ 11 oz more. And I'm thinking to down soap, and less maintenance and storage issues. Strong argument for the SS, strong indeed.

    Thanks for making me think!
    Last edited by dirtwheels; 11-04-2012 at 23:50.

  7. #37
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtwheels View Post
    .........................Were those spots near the bottom opening elastic? That would make sense to me. I haven't really checked anywhere other than directly below my torso within reach of my arm on the zipper side, and it seems sorta loose best I remember, I'll check that soon.
    I think so, more or less in the center and maybe about butt area for max tension, but don't hold me to that. Main thing is, some spots had more tension that others.


    ..... I think your compression sack idea has merits, but wouldn't you imagine that would require the pad be rolled to a size slightly smaller than the compression sack?
    Well, I just use a larger sack. A large Sea to summit or just a large WM compression stuff sack like this, with one HHSS with one Explorer UL hammock, pad, plus kidney/torso pad, a space blanket, overcover,undercover and one Golight Ultra20 TQ in one Heavy duty coated nylon sack, total weight 5 lb 7 oz:


    Or I just stuff it in my pack. I stuff it just like an UQ. I just grab a handful of hammock, UC and pad (and sometimes TQ ) and stuff it to the bottom of the large sack, grab some more and repeat until all is in, and then compress. This would compress more but this sack is limited on compression. But still, consider all that is in there!

    You may be persuading me a little on that one. hhhmmmmm.... I've been wanting to try a sea to summit UL compression sack.

    Great.......now I've gotta go dig the SSUQ out and measure and weigh....

    WOW, your idea on the compression is now peaking my interest A LOT...

    The WL SSUQ in @ 14 oz., and in the original stuff sack -measures 12" x 4.5", but could compress more.

    The HH SS pad on the original stuff sack weighs in @ 11 oz., and measures 16.5" x 5" and will also compress more, but how well it will bounce back I really don't know, seems like it should, after all it sprang into shape after escaping the original package. From compressing in the original package I could see getting it down to ~7.5" x 5 - 5.5". The SSUQ would compress to ~ 5" x 4 - 4.5".
    Yep, it will spring back pretty good and fast, unless it has been compressed a long time, not unlike down. But good down will compress more, still it ain't bad.


    That said, the 45* rated UQ is only 4.5" shorter uncompressed and 2.5" shorter compressed and has a record of successful sub 0* hangs.
    OK, you've lost me. Are we talking about the WL UQ here? But whichever, what do you mean successful sub zero hangs? ( sub zero F? )

    I may not be as ready as I thought to look for a UQ to replace the SS. HH says the UC weighs 6.5 oz. so that makes the potential sub 0* solution weighs in @ 17.5 oz. not including the SB.
    So are you considering the HHSS - without adding insulation - for sub zero F use? Admittedly, a few people have done it, but they are rare as hens teeth. Most get to the low 30s, a few others into the 20s or rarely high teens. There have been 2 or 3 max that have gone below zero F without augmentation, most notably Cryofthewild.....
    kwpapke went to minus 27, but that was heavily augmented.


    An additional 3.5 oz to get to sub zero seems like a great deal all other considerations aside. Add to that that the SS retails @ $149 and a Hammock Gear 0* full length UQ will set ya' back $264 and weighs in @ ~ 11 oz more. And I'm thinking to down soap, and less maintenance and storage issues. Strong argument for the SS, strong indeed.

    Thanks for making me think!
    You are welcome, glad to help. But fill me in on your thinking bout this sub zero idea for a basic HHSS with space blanket? Unless you mean sub zero celsius, or just below freezing? ( maybe that's what you mean?) In that case, no problems!
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 11-05-2012 at 07:44.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  8. #38
    dirtwheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    I think so, more or less in the center and maybe about butt area for max tension, but don't hold me to that. Main thing is, some spots had more tension that others.


    Well, I just use a larger sack. A large Sea to summit or just a large WM compression stuff sack like this, with one HHSS with one Explorer UL hammock, pad, plus kidney/torso pad, a space blanket, overcover,undercover and one Golight Ultra20 TQ in one Heavy duty coated nylon sack, total weight 5 lb 7 oz:


    Or I just stuff it in my pack. I stuff it just like an UQ. I just grab a handful of hammock, UC and pad (and sometimes TQ ) and stuff it to the bottom of the large sack, grab some more and repeat until all is in, and then compress. This would compress more but this sack is limited on compression. But still, consider all that is in there!

    Yep, it will spring back pretty good and fast, unless it has been compressed a long time, not unlike down. But good down will compress more, still it ain't bad.
    Thanks, it does appear to have the ability to compress, fairly well.


    [QUOTE=BillyBob58;851724]OK, you've lost me. Are we talking about the WL UQ here? But whichever, what do you mean succesful sub zero hangs? ( sub zero F? )

    So are you considering the HHSS - without adding insulation - for sub zero F use? Admittedly, a few people have done it, but they are rare as hens teeth. Most get to the low 30s, a few others into the 20s or rarely high teens. There have been 2 or 3 max that have gone below zero F without augmentation, most notablt Cryofthewild.....
    kwpapke went to minus 27, but that was heavily augmented.

    I left out a few words....proof reading ..

    I meant to compare the WL SSUQ size & temp success with the SS size and temp success. It seems I misread the temp success others experienced with the SS, seems like I should compare to a 30* UQ.

  9. #39
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    [QUOTE=dirtwheels;851840]Thanks, it does appear to have the ability to compress, fairly well.


    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    OK, you've lost me. Are we talking about the WL UQ here? But whichever, what do you mean succesful sub zero hangs? ( sub zero F? )

    So are you considering the HHSS - without adding insulation - for sub zero F use? Admittedly, a few people have done it, but they are rare as hens teeth. Most get to the low 30s, a few others into the 20s or rarely high teens. There have been 2 or 3 max that have gone below zero F without augmentation, most notablt Cryofthewild.....
    kwpapke went to minus 27, but that was heavily augmented.

    I left out a few words....proof reading ..

    I meant to compare the WL SSUQ size & temp success with the SS size and temp success. It seems I misread the temp success others experienced with the SS, seems like I should compare to a 30* UQ.
    Comparing the HHSS with a 30*F UQ ( or maybe 20-25 for some ) would seem about right to me. Even though some have gone a lot colder, most have not seems to me. Not without some form of augmentation.

    But this WL SSUQ is a 45F rated short quilt, right? This one? :
    http://www.wildernesslogics.com/SSUQ...NDER-QUILT.htm Is that the one?
    46" long and no wind protection included but weighing only 10 oz, so still pretty good considering that.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  10. #40
    dirtwheels's Avatar
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    That's the one, I'm going to do some test with it & the UC and the REI SB.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Comparing with a 30*F ( or maybe 20-25 for some ) would seem about right to me.

    But this WL SSUQ is a 45F rated short quilt, right? This one? :
    http://www.wildernesslogics.com/SSUQ...NDER-QUILT.htm Is that the one?
    46" long and no wind protection included but weighing only 10 oz, so still pretty good considering that.

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