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  1. #21
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAD777 View Post
    I've always understood that "locked brummels" are there to hold the loop together, only when no load is applied. It just keeps them from falling apart when they are thrown loosely into your storage bin at home, etc.

    The bury provides the strength for a loaded situation. If you skimp on the bury, you are skimping on the strength of the suspension.

    I have completely abandoned locked brummels in favor a sewing a few hand stitches into the bury.
    I still do locked brummels, but I always sew 4 to 5 hand stitches just to be sure.

  2. #22
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    My burys are always at least 6 inches never had one slip
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  3. #23
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    I am new to the forum but thought I might share what I found when making my slings. If you look on the Sampson website http://www.samsonrope.com/splicing-instructions.cfm
    the designed bury should be 2 &1/4 fid lengths for Amsteel (12 strand) and 1 fid for Tenex (12 strand) on the locked brummel. A fid is 21 times the diameter of the rope. I have made several from 7/64 up to 1/4 Amsteel and all have held with no slippage.

  4. #24
    Needs more Hang time Catavarie's Avatar
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    Glad you weren't injured, but yeah I use a 4 inch bury in all but the first set of whoopies I've made. The first I did a 6 inch bury, and sat down very carefully because I thought there was no way such a thin line could hold me.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dammfast View Post
    shows you how "slippery" amsteel is, my understanding is that most of a locked brummels strength is supposed to come from the lock.
    This is not correct. The bury is intended to do all of the work and the lock is only there to prevent the bury from backing out under no load situations. This situation illustrates why the lock has little strength. A few stitches can be substituted for the locked brummel and the strength will be the same. Again, the stitches do not add strength, but keep the bury from slipping out when there is no load,

  6. #26
    Senior Member opie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    The strength of the fixed loop comes from the bury. The lockes brummel can provide a little strength but the constriction around the bury is what is needed. The primary reason for the locked brummel is to prevent the bury from coming out when the loop is not loaded. You can make a fixed loop without the locked brummel that holds just fine. People do this and then run a few stitches through the bury to prevent it from coming out when not loaded.

    Manufacturer's recommendations for the fixed loop bury is somewhere around 6 inches, I can't remember exactly with 2 inches of that being a taper. I have made them shorter but I'd never go less than 4.5 inches. Not surprised that 1 inch did not hold. Glad you did not get hurt.
    Actually, the brummel does provide strength. In fact, if you can keep the braid from unraveling, the brummel will support roughly 3/4 of the rating of the line.

    A proper locked brummel splice requires 1 less fid length of bury than a normal stitched splice, which uses 3 fids.
    I am not a gram weenie. , But Im starting to see the merits!!!

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  7. #27
    Senior Member opie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    This is not correct. The bury is intended to do all of the work and the lock is only there to prevent the bury from backing out under no load situations. This situation illustrates why the lock has little strength. A few stitches can be substituted for the locked brummel and the strength will be the same. Again, the stitches do not add strength, but keep the bury from slipping out when there is no load,
    The lock does provide strength, but due to how its constructed the braid needs to be secured from unraveling. A 1" bury is not enough constriction on the braid to keep it from unraveling.

    One can test this buy inserting a knitting needle into the braid of the line say 1" from the end, and trying to pull the needle lengthwise down to the end of the line. It should pull out easily. Now insert the needle say 6" up from the end, and do the same thing. The braid itself is just as strong as the line, if you can keep it together. The splice aids the lock by not just normal constriction, but by keeping the braid from separating.
    I am not a gram weenie. , But Im starting to see the merits!!!

    Kris' Splicing

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  8. #28
    Senior Member Roe Ring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opie View Post
    Actually, the brummel does provide strength. In fact, if you can keep the braid from unraveling, the brummel will support roughly 3/4 of the rating of the line.

    A proper locked brummel splice requires 1 less fid length of bury than a normal stitched splice, which uses 3 fids.
    Thanks Opie, it's good to hear some positive news on using locked brummels. I have them on my continuous loops, whoopie slings and my detachable RL.

    When you say that the lock will support 3/4 of the rating of the line, does that mean that the line will snap at the lock? Or that the splice will open at 3/4 of the rating? How does that compare to a straight brummel splice, does that achieve the full line rating?

    Thanks

    Mark

  9. #29

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    Stevebo: I received my Amsteel from Dutch today. Because of your post I made sure that when I made the locked brummel for my Woopie slings I buried at least 6" of tail.

    Sorry that you took a fall, but I'm sure your advice is saving us from falls.

  10. #30
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    Glad to be of service! (I was thinking of a second career as a crash test dummy---I seem to have a knack for it! )
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