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  1. #21
    canoebie's Avatar
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    From the viewpoint of policy, I think most policymakers will assume people are "idiots" as you describe them. Therefore, extreme policies tend to be applied. I think it would benefit all of us if each of us did everything we could to minimize the concerns of said policy makers.

    Using your food metaphor, that is why large soft drinks are being banned in New York. A little common sense goes a long way. Obviously you can use your fork or your amsteel however you choose. I think it makes sense to consider the larger impact of actions that we take. While we are "ruggedly independent" we as a hammock community feel a certain sense of responsibility to the larger community of hangers and want to be able to hang in more commonly used public areas. Education and minimization of potential harm are part of that process.

    All we ask is that you give consideration to potential use of your product all over the country where folks are not as knowledgeable as you apparently are. By doing so, you will help them, the trees, and the hanging community.

    If that effort appears to be more than you are willing to do, we hope that you will encourage folks to check out this site to gain information necessary to making informed decisions about hanging. I think you give too much credit to the beginner, it is a learning process and this forum is a great place to begin. I see abuses in state parks and such regularly.

    Thanks so much for taking us seriously and I do appreciate the fact that you have contributed so much to the cause of conservation. We need more folks, straps or not, to do such.
    Last edited by canoebie; 09-25-2012 at 16:47.
    Revolution is about the need to re-evolve political, economic and social justice and power back into the hands of the people, preferably through legislation and policies that make human sense. That's what revolution is about. Revolution is not about shootouts.

    Bobby Seale


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  2. #22
    Senior Member Mustardman's Avatar
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    This person has made quite clear that he takes no responsibility for his advertising in no way containing any warning that rope is looked down upon on many public lands and that his product could harm some trees. He clearly cares so little that he is unwilling to even add a one line "warning, depending on tree type this could harm the trees permanently" to his products, and therefore we are beating a dead horse.


    I stand even more strongly by my initial statement, and suggest we drop this - it is quite clear that his mind will not be changed.

  3. #23
    Bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushcraftbasics View Post
    i have plenty of compassion for the environment, proven not only by the number of days that i spend outdoors per year, but also by the numerous donations that i make each year toward fish, wildlife and parks and rec.

    it is not my responsilbility to weed out those with no common sense, if someone wants to use amsteel as suspension for their hammocks that is their option, and you should trust that they are capable of making an edjucated decision based on the information that is widely available concerning both sides of the argument...or do you believe that all silverware manufacturers should be resposible for including obesity warnings when selling thier forks?

    ill tell you what, if every hammocker worldwide started using piano wire for suspension the damage created would pale in comparison to the torture that our trees suffer every day from idots "playing" outside...

    i guess in short, what im trying to say is: let the noobs try things out, have a little faith in the common sense of us hammockers and our ability to make our own decisions, if i can hang for over 10 years without hurting the trees so can you...
    Common sense isn't that common otherwise parks wouldn't have sign like "Do not litter" or "Danger, high water levels" or "Please wear life jackets".
    Sometimes warnings are a liability issue like "Warning, chocking hazard". You'd hope a parent would realize this but if the warning wasn't there, there could be a lawsuit. Is there a possibilty of you getting sued if someone kills a tree in their backyard?
    Don't let life get in the way of living.

  4. #24
    canoebie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    This person has made quite clear that he takes no responsibility for his advertising in no way containing any warning that rope is looked down upon on many public lands and that his product could harm some trees. He clearly cares so little that he is unwilling to even add a one line "warning, depending on tree type this could harm the trees permanently" to his products, and therefore we are beating a dead horse.


    I stand even more strongly by my initial statement, and suggest we drop this - it is quite clear that his mind will not be changed.
    Perhaps, but I still had to try. I believe people always have the capacity to change. It is something I hold as a core value.
    Revolution is about the need to re-evolve political, economic and social justice and power back into the hands of the people, preferably through legislation and policies that make human sense. That's what revolution is about. Revolution is not about shootouts.

    Bobby Seale


    http://www.riverjourneys.org

  5. #25
    DivaB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canoebie View Post
    Perhaps, but I still had to try. I believe people always have the capacity to change. It is something I hold as a core value.
    I agree with both of your statements.

    Perhaps, as we keep things family friendly, he'll understand how close of a community we are, and how valuable we find educating others is, along with how hard some of us have worked at getting parks to allow hammock hanging, when once they didn't. l also can tell by his comments that he does care, and will probably realize his mistake with the youtube video since common since is not real common among others. We can't assume others just know what to do.

    Keep it light gang, keep it friendly. I'm guilty of leaving a comment on the YouTube video too. Heck, I even went back through trying to figure out how to delete it and for the life of me I could not figure out how to do that. Hind Sight At least the comment wasn't attacking.

    BushCraftBasics, I am sorry. Please delete my youtube comment. My comment is under DivaBClub. I want to welcome you to hammock forums. We have many, many Bush Crafters here so I'm sure you can find some commonality in several forms if your willing to stick around.

  6. #26
    but enough about me hppyfngy's Avatar
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    I'm with you Canobie and still hope that as he calms down and sees we are not his enemies, but rather a large group of pretty like minded people and potential customers, he might reconsider his "whatever" approach.

    A little warning in the advertisement would go a long way.

    I hope he will think about it.

    HFG out.
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  7. #27
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushcraftbasics View Post
    i guess in short, what im trying to say is: let the noobs try things out, have a little faith in the common sense of us hammockers and our ability to make our own decisions, if i can hang for over 10 years without hurting the trees so can you...
    I think there's a difference in saying that you've caused no damage to the trees versus no discernible damage.

    Also, what we are advocating is a best practice for hammock camping. Best practices are used in many industries because they're tried and true practices that yield the best results. In this case, tree straps at least 1" inch wide is a de facto hammocking best practice which we promote because it's in our best interests to do so, and also the trees' best interest.

  8. #28
    ...hey guys, i apologize if i came off defensive.

    in the past few days i have recieved a raft of crap on both my youtube channel and my ebay, and have pretty much narrowed it down to people from this site, so you'll have to forgive me if i have harbored a little frustration, some have not been as eloquent as others in stating their case against me.

    i guess i owe it to some of you to do my part in ensuring that my products arent being used in such a way as to damage trees or to impede our ability to hang where we like...i guess i also owe it to myself to make sure no one sues me for killing a tree in their yard

    i am sure i could have handled this situation better but being attacked by a gang of hangers calling me a "tree killer" kinda rubbed me the wrong way...i hope you understand

    canoebie, Divab and hppyfngy, thank you...

  9. #29
    Bubba's Avatar
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    I apologize if I came off antagonistic. It's easy to point fingers sometime. Again, welcome to the forum and I hope to see you around. All the best with your ventures.
    Don't let life get in the way of living.

  10. #30
    but enough about me hppyfngy's Avatar
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    Dude, I completely understand your feeling defensive. And I'm really glad you might now consider that we aren't out to get you.

    "Hang around" here for a while and you'll understand our collective attitude and hopefully you'll make some good friends.

    We are simply passionate and protective of our little hobby. And we really really love trees.

    Welcome.

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