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  1. #21
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    I was in my local REI an felt the weight of a sleeping bag with hydrophobic down and it felt heavier. Does any one know what the weight penalty is compared to untreated down?

    S

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    There have been some fine responses so far. I'm less concerned with getting soaked (it's my job to prevent that), but I can't regulate the humidity I generate myself as easily. I've read reports of down slowly losing its effectiveness in longer winter trips because it gradually absorbs more and more body moisture in a week or more of use. The new treated down may help with that. I'd like to hear reports from testers under those conditions, but it may be a while before we get enough to conclude anything.
    My thoughts and concerns as well .. this is why the use of VB liners/clothes is showing to be effective on long, cold hikes .. I'm still a firm believer in layering even in using UQ/TQ .. and thermo-regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by bear bag hanger View Post
    I've been interested in the hydrophobic down, but am worried a little. When I look at the chemicals used to cover the down, I'm reminded of the out gassing problems some new houses have. Is there any testing or proof this stuff won't, over time, make me sick?
    Interesting point !!!
    "The wise man questions others wisdom because he questions his own, the foolish man because it is different from his own." Leo Stein

  3. #23
    Senior Member bear bag hanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sr1355 View Post
    In our modern life we are exposed the 1000's of chemicals everyday, it's an unavoidable result of our world. There are chemicals used to apply a DWR finish to the down. Similar chemicals are used to apply the DWR finish to most water repellant fabrics including the shells of most commercially made sleeping bags. I have read the MSDS sheet for the liquid state of the chemical used the creat the DWR finish. As with any MSDS sheet it has warnings regarding ingestion, inhalation, some of them not pleasant so don't drink it. The liquid chemicals themselves are also listed as biogradable after 28 days in a liquid state. Once applied to either a fabric or in this case down, washed, and dryed the application is complete. As for conclusive proof, I don't have any for you. According to the MSDS sheet the product is compliant with California Prop 65 and contains no listed substances known to cause cancer, birth defects, or other reproductive harm, at level which would require a warning under the statute.

    These chemicals aren't new to our modern world, the application of them to down is the new part. So, you've probably been exposed already if you own a sleeping bag, rain jacket, are any of many products. As a vendor using the product I have noticed absolutely no odor with this product. I certainly understand your concern as an individual and only you can make the choice to use a certain product. I have made the choice for myself, with the research I have done, the infomation I have been provided, and the fact that many large name player are using the product as well. Their legal and R&D departments will be sure to have vetted the product to reduce their potential exposure.

    Anyways, I have standard down for those not interested in Hydrophobic Down...
    Thank you! Glad to hear it was considered. May order something next month.

  4. #24
    sr1355's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    I was in my local REI an felt the weight of a sleeping bag with hydrophobic down and it felt heavier. Does any one know what the weight penalty is compared to untreated down?

    S
    Great questions, there is no discernible weight penalty for treated down, 1 oz of 850 untreated down or 1 oz of 850 treated down will both yeild 850 cubic inch of loft under ideal conditions. No disrespect, and I appreciate your observation but without two piece of equipment side by side at REI that are the exact same model/size with the only difference being fill type you'd be hard pressed to make that judgement without a scale. To many variables are at play even in the same model, tolerance stacking can result in a weight difference in just the fill amounts. If one bag each chamber is filled on the low end of the tolerance of the manufacturer and the other bag is fill on the upper end of the tolerance you may end up with quite a difference. All of these contribute to what you may have observed and in no means reflects a weight penalty for carrying a treated down versus untreated.

    I hope that answers your question and again no offense meant...
    Last edited by sr1355; 10-25-2012 at 09:28.
    Happy Hangin'

    Paul - SR1355
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  5. #25
    Callahan's Avatar
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    This is a great thread. I'll be in the market for a winter topquilt in the near future, and have been considering the treated down.

    Cheers

  6. #26
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    Moisture would only accumulate below freezing, right?

    Mike

  7. #27
    sr1355's Avatar
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    Mositure vapor can be expereinced in any temp range given right conditions, i.e. temp, humidity, fog, mist, etc... In cold, winter conditions, the moisture vapor can condense in the down at what is call the dew point. At a point inside a quilt where the temp is a the dew point the moisture vapor can condense into liquid form on the insulation regardless of insulation type. This temp will vary with outside temps, humidity levels, etc... In my former career we using vapor barrier to prevent mositure migration into building assemblies so a vapor barrier between the quilt and you would be an effective solution for winter conditions to protect your insulation of choice.
    Happy Hangin'

    Paul - SR1355
    UGQ Outdoor Equipment
    Makers of High Performance Sleeping Gear and Tarps

    CLICK HERE TO VISIT UGQ GALLERY

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  8. #28
    Member PackBacker's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j96yFJP0FzI outdoor gear lab tested the sierra designs dri down...kind of intresting although i dont think that is how they meant for them to use it.

  9. #29
    Senior Member PineMartyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackBacker View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j96yFJP0FzI outdoor gear lab tested the sierra designs dri down...kind of intresting although i dont think that is how they meant for them to use it.
    Amazing. The most misguided gear test I've ever seen.

    Thanks for the link PackBacker. At least now I know I should probably never waste my time looking at the gear reviews by Outdoor Gear Labs. Do they, by any chance, have any videos where their gear testers pitch a hammock on the ground like a tent to see how comfortable hammock camping is?

    Cheers,
    - Martin
    Last edited by PineMartyn; 10-25-2012 at 15:00. Reason: typo correction
    No one has ever been heard to say on a deathbed, "I wish I'd put in more time at the office."

  10. #30
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    LOL i dont think so but it wouldnt surprise me if they did

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