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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    just be careful with the two suspension lines - biners are designed to be loaded on-axis, and it could be fairly easy for this configuration to become cross-loaded in a way that does not correctly bear your weight.
    I guess I'm just thick but I don't quite understand that statement. Specifically, I don't understand what "loaded on axis" means and/or "cross-loaded".

    It seems quite simple to me....I'm having a hard time figuring how you could screw it up.

    Can you describe the problem in some other way? I have a couple of those biners and am considering making the mod.

    Thanks, Miguel

  2. #12
    ferret's Avatar
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    Generally, I think the weight rating is meant for the load in a straight line end to end. With that setup it introduces two different loads going in two different directions which pulls the biner in ways it wasnt quite meant for. Doesnt mean it wont work, but the weight rating just wont be exact anymore.

    I was thinking maybe have a biner on the end of each line and hook them on the fixed end of a whoopie?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Mustardman's Avatar
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    To expand on Ferret's explanation - a biner is designed to take forces pulling straight along the long direction, but there are lots of ways this setup could pull in other directions. The most worrisome in my eyes is the chance for things to shift around while the hammock is not loaded. A little wind whipping the suspension lines around, and they could easily end up pulling on a weird direction and doing something like pulling sideways on the thinner section of the metal.

    This is one of the most common types of failure for rock climbers - if you do a google image search for "cross load carabiner", you get some nice images on the first page of biners that broke because they were'nt loaded correctly.


    Again, I'm not saying it won't work - I am warning you to be careful about it.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Dudorino's Avatar
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    How about using soft shackles made out of Amsteel instead of the biner? That would solve the cross-load issue. What do you think of that solution?
    My YouTube channel: Tool Dude Tony
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  5. #15
    Senior Member StumpJumper's Avatar
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    I've used the Dutch Biner in this fashion for about a month now with zero fears. The inside of the Biner is rather slim so it channels both of the amsteel lines longways vs a wider area that would allow for more sideways pull. I've also attached the biner using a larkshead which transfers the pull/force outside of the Biner... This is handy for attaching whoopies, but sort of recreates the problem of extra steps in attaching the spindrift.

    I'm still using it... But in the end I found an $85 solution. A 2nd RR - netless.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by HobieCat View Post
    I've used the Dutch Biner in this fashion for about a month now with zero fears. The inside of the Biner is rather slim so it channels both of the amsteel lines longways vs a wider area that would allow for more sideways pull. I've also attached the biner using a larkshead which transfers the pull/force outside of the Biner... This is handy for attaching whoopies, but sort of recreates the problem of extra steps in attaching the spindrift.

    I'm still using it... But in the end I found an $85 solution. A 2nd RR - netless.
    yes, i think using a girth hitch/LH to attach the dogbones to the biner and to attach suspension to the biner as well would help keep the dogbones and suspension attached where they should be(at the ends) lessening the chance of crossloading.

    i think mustardman is correct, you'll want to make sure crossloading does not occur, if things are left to slide around freely that could indeed happen.

  7. #17
    hairbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    To expand on Ferret's explanation - a biner is designed to take forces pulling straight along the long direction, but there are lots of ways this setup could pull in other directions. The most worrisome in my eyes is the chance for things to shift around while the hammock is not loaded. A little wind whipping the suspension lines around, and they could easily end up pulling on a weird direction and doing something like pulling sideways on the thinner section of the metal.

    This is one of the most common types of failure for rock climbers - if you do a google image search for "cross load carabiner", you get some nice images on the first page of biners that broke because they were'nt loaded correctly.


    Again, I'm not saying it won't work - I am warning you to be careful about it.
    thanks for the heads up.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferret View Post
    Generally, I think the weight rating is meant for the load in a straight line end to end. With that setup it introduces two different loads going in two different directions which pulls the biner in ways it wasnt quite meant for. Doesnt mean it wont work, but the weight rating just wont be exact anymore.

    I was thinking maybe have a biner on the end of each line and hook them on the fixed end of a whoopie?
    would it get rid of this risk if the loops were wrapped together or sewn together.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel View Post
    I guess I'm just thick but I don't quite understand that statement. Specifically, I don't understand what "loaded on axis" means and/or "cross-loaded".

    It seems quite simple to me....I'm having a hard time figuring how you could screw it up.

    Can you describe the problem in some other way? I have a couple of those biners and am considering making the mod.

    Thanks, Miguel
    Thanks to all for the explanations...much clearer now.

    Miguel

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    To expand on Ferret's explanation - a biner is designed to take forces pulling straight along the long direction, but there are lots of ways this setup could pull in other directions. The most worrisome in my eyes is the chance for things to shift around while the hammock is not loaded. A little wind whipping the suspension lines around, and they could easily end up pulling on a weird direction and doing something like pulling sideways on the thinner section of the metal.

    This is one of the most common types of failure for rock climbers - if you do a google image search for "cross load carabiner", you get some nice images on the first page of biners that broke because they were'nt loaded correctly.


    Again, I'm not saying it won't work - I am warning you to be careful about it.
    If there are any other knuckleheads out there that are still confused about this...Mustardman's suggestion of the Google "cross load carabiner" search will make it crystal clear. I already knew this but apparently didn't know the correct terminology for it.

    Thanks Mustardman. Miguel

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