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  1. #11
    yeah, forgot about that, i made a sil "pillowcase" for cannibal's breathable uq, a little heavier than the full sil quilt w/zipper and even the 3 piece shell i spoke about above. same idea however. the pillowcase seemed to kinda be a PITA to deal with though.

    jeff, good point about the garlington taco/undercover/weathershield, a much larger piece of fabric, but is more versatile and could be used alone in summer. lots of different options here it seems.

  2. #12
    dave, so you're saying the thicker the uq, the more boost you get from a vb? never occured to me like that.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    Dave - If you use that logic, I think you'd have to factor in wind conditions as well. On my first field night in a hammock, it was very windy and I was very cold. I was just in a sleeping bag in a Hennessy...so I had a few layers of breathable material between me and the wind. Overnight I got cold enough to wrap the tarp underneath the hammock as a wind block...I was immediately warm enough to sleep. If I had to estimate, I'd say I felt 10-15F warmer just by using the sil as a windblock...like I said, it was a big enough difference that I could actually sleep. This matches the earlier comment about wind making the underquilt feel colder for a moment as well...maybe the wind is cutting thru the DWR rather than just seeping in the edges from a poor fit?

    Anyway, your logic sounds reasonable but I think wind is another variable to consider re: the difference between sil and 1.1 oz DWR.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

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  4. #14
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    One thing that makes testing various systems where condensation is concerned is the environment you are in. Those conditions can change from one night to the next or even from one hour to the next in some cases.

    In some conditions you are going to have condensation issues and there isn't a thing you can do about it. At the other extreme it doesn't hardly matter what you do, you aren't going to have condensation issues.

    If you are sleeping in a high humidity environment, with no wind over damp ground that is releasing water vapor (ground fog in the extreme), the underside of your tarp is going to be damp no matter how you pitch it. And you are going to have condensation issues because none of the moisture you generate is moving on or being absorbed. Actually you are being barraged by moist air that has reached it dew point and is just looking for something to dump moisture on.

    If you are in a dry area with wind blowing extremely low humidity air at you and you are just able to stay warm, you will be hard pressed to have condensation build up no matter what you do.

    In between, what you do or don't do can have an impact and that is what we are usually in... hopefully.
    Youngblood AT2000

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    Dave - If you use that logic, I think you'd have to factor in wind conditions as well. On my first field night in a hammock, it was very windy and I was very cold. I was just in a sleeping bag in a Hennessy...so I had a few layers of breathable material between me and the wind. Overnight I got cold enough to wrap the tarp underneath the hammock as a wind block...I was immediately warm enough to sleep. If I had to estimate, I'd say I felt 10-15F warmer just by using the sil as a windblock...like I said, it was a big enough difference that I could actually sleep. This matches the earlier comment about wind making the underquilt feel colder for a moment as well...maybe the wind is cutting thru the DWR rather than just seeping in the edges from a poor fit?

    Anyway, your logic sounds reasonable but I think wind is another variable to consider re: the difference between sil and 1.1 oz DWR.
    Jeff... wind penetration is another issue. And like you said it is a biggie. Even without the penetration is is a big factor as it removes your boundary layer of warm air. But when it penetrates your insulation and flushes the warm air out if it... that is really really bad.

    These suspended underquilts are most susceptible to that not only because of the breathable nylon but also because of the fit issues at the foot end. Air blowing directly into the foot of those can sometimes get between the hammock and the underquilt. Even a well fitting underquilt can't make those accordion folds go away and air traveling fast enough can find its way into there.

    If you have a choice, put the head end into the wind. It is easier to deal with even with pads. Blowing into your face is worse that blowing on your back.
    Youngblood AT2000

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youngblood View Post
    Jeff... wind penetration is another issue. And like you said it is a biggie. Even without the penetration is is a big factor as it removes your boundary layer of warm air. But when it penetrates your insulation and flushes the warm air out if it... that is really really bad.

    These suspended underquilts are most susceptible to that not only because of the breathable nylon but also because of the fit issues at the foot end. Air blowing directly into the foot of those can sometimes get between the hammock and the underquilt. Even a well fitting underquilt can't make those accordion folds go away and air traveling fast enough can find its way into there.

    If you have a choice, put the head end into the wind. It is easier to deal with even with pads. Blowing into your face is worse that blowing on your back.
    Wind is certainly an issue.... But... the smart money is on pitching an adequate tarp to block the wind... Mostly it is about site and tree selection.

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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_pan View Post
    Wind is certainly an issue.... But... the smart money is on pitching an adequate tarp to block the wind... Mostly it is about site and tree selection.

    pan
    Yep, we seldom setup where/when wind is a problem, but sometimes the wind changes on us. And large tarps or hammock socks where you can block the wind from getting to the underquilt can solve that issue. But not everyone has one of those or carries them in all cases. In the situation where you have an option of one end being more exposed to possible wind, you would want the head end to be exposed if all other things were equal and you were worried about trying to stay warm.
    Youngblood AT2000

  8. #18
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    BillyBob58,
    This has been a good thread for me. Understanding some of the issues around vapor barrier usage is indeed helpful since I'm often camping in sub freezing temps. I have a question for you however. In your post you refer to an "SB" and I'm at a loss what that stands for. It doesn't show up in the acronyms yet....so please enlighten me. Thanks.

  9. #19
    space blanket i assume, which is also a vapor barrier.

  10. #20
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    Ah, yes...sounds right, thanks.

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