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  1. #61
    Needs more Hang time Catavarie's Avatar
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    The problem with a DL M50 hammock as I see it is that it does not improve anything. It would in fact be heavier than a single layer 1.1 Ripstop, while having only slightly more weight rating. I can't help but think that with such a low denier fabric that Ripstop is necessary for all but the leanest of hangers.
    *Heaven best have trees, because I plan to lounge for eternity.

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  2. #62
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    Raiffnuke M50 Hammock

    While I appreciate the philosophies of why to not do something I have gained more personally doing things and experimenting beyond the what's best and I believe you need to push past limits to find what is. There was a time Cuban Fiber was no doubt thought too expensive and not durable enough for the outdoor industry and I guess those mountaineers who used it proved that wrong. Maybe it will never be good for hammocks because it can be stiffer but the samples I got prove they are designing it for other uses including a stretch Cuban that feels like a stretchy ziplock bag as well as a Cuban that includes angled fiber weave. It may be a while or never for it to be comfortable enough for everyone.
    I am saying my philosophy leans toward innovation and possibility.
    I just got this Squamish Hoody from Arcteryx and this stuff is lite and cuts wind and its a mini ripstop with a little give to it. If I could get my hands on this material! It feels real good against the skin. The material is called luminara.
    We cannot have success without failure.

  3. #63
    MAD777's Avatar
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    Raiffnuke M50 Hammock

    Quote Originally Posted by Bosman View Post
    While I appreciate the philosophies of why to not do something I have gained more personally doing things and experimenting beyond the what's best and I believe you need to push past limits to find what is.....

    We cannot have success without failure.
    Very well put!
    Mike
    "Life is a Project!"

  4. #64
    Senior Member DemostiX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosman View Post
    While I appreciate the philosophies of why to not do something I have gained more personally doing things and experimenting beyond the what's best and I believe you need to push past limits to find what is. There was a time Cuban Fiber was no doubt thought too expensive and not durable enough for the outdoor industry and I guess those mountaineers who used it proved that wrong. Maybe it will never be good for hammocks because it can be stiffer but the samples I got prove they are designing it for other uses including a stretch Cuban that feels like a stretchy ziplock bag as well as a Cuban that includes angled fiber weave. It may be a while or never for it to be comfortable enough for everyone.
    I am saying my philosophy leans toward innovation and possibility.
    I just got this Squamish Hoody from Arcteryx and this stuff is lite and cuts wind and its a mini ripstop with a little give to it. If I could get my hands on this material! It feels real good against the skin. The material is called luminara.
    We cannot have success without failure.
    The only innovation here is substitution of a very lightweight fabric one dealer was sold by a sales person, a fabric normally used by some larger manufacturers of sleeping bags.

    Innovation is what Warbonnetguy does in his designs, what Paul has done with his pole-enhanced tarp, and HammockGear have done in the tailoring and shaping of his UQs, and the R&D director at Leighlo has done in UQ suspension. (Then there's JRB, whose product line seems to answer: "Can you take long walks in the woods and count on lightweight hammocking for warmth and good rest? Without failure, and not on the bleeding edge."

    Cuben? Well, I'm old enough to remember and to have used fiberglass-reinforced strapping tape and Mylar(tm) films as a kid. Innovation there is in the improvement of thin-film production manufacturing and adhesive chemistry to the point that the reinforcing fibers came to be unneeded by many, so unlikely was it that the increasingly thinner and stronger tape would lift and be subject to failure from tearing. Cuben is just a lightweight and expensive reinforced film without some of the advantages of woven fabric.

    Let's not set the bar so low as to accept mere substitution of lighter materials for improvement and innovation. Been there, with cracked hollow weight-saving titanium bolts and axles.

  5. #65
    Moderator raiffnuke's Avatar
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    Raiffnuke M50 Hammock

    Quote Originally Posted by DemostiX View Post
    The only innovation here is substitution of a very lightweight fabric one dealer was sold by a sales person, a fabric normally used by some larger manufacturers of sleeping bags.

    Innovation is what Warbonnetguy does in his designs, what Paul has done with his pole-enhanced tarp, and HammockGear have done in the tailoring and shaping of his UQs, and the R&D director at Leighlo has done in UQ suspension. (Then there's JRB, whose product line seems to answer: "Can you take long walks in the woods and count on lightweight hammocking for warmth and good rest? Without failure, and not on the bleeding edge."

    Cuben? Well, I'm old enough to remember and to have used fiberglass-reinforced strapping tape and Mylar(tm) films as a kid. Innovation there is in the improvement of thin-film production manufacturing and adhesive chemistry to the point that the reinforcing fibers came to be unneeded by many, so unlikely was it that the increasingly thinner and stronger tape would lift and be subject to failure from tearing. Cuben is just a lightweight and expensive reinforced film without some of the advantages of woven fabric.

    Let's not set the bar so low as to accept mere substitution of lighter materials for improvement and innovation. Been there, with cracked hollow weight-saving titanium bolts and axles.
    While I appreciate your viewpoint, lets keep this thread civil. My hammock was built upon request for testing purposes not to mention comfort and fun.

  6. #66
    Moderator raiffnuke's Avatar
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    Raiffnuke M50 Hammock

    I also make no claims to compete with the likes of Warbonnet or Hammock Gear, but I do like testing and pushing the limits of new materials and ideas.

  7. #67
    Senior Member DemostiX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiffnuke View Post
    While I appreciate your viewpoint, lets keep this thread civil. My hammock was built upon request for testing purposes not to mention comfort and fun.
    I appreciate your trial of the material. I followed threads on this and similar fabrics in one of the hiker forums, and sympathized entirely with one of the reputational skeptics who frankly despaired of getting straight answers on what the fabric was that some were talking about because the fabric had changed without change in label. I read here of similar confusion.

    If a slender pre-teen daughter or grandchild given to take care of equipment wanted a hammock for regular indoor sleep-over use, one of M50 -- along with pillows and quilts covered with the same -- might be just the thing.

  8. #68
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    If there is a mini ripstop version of m50 available I will jump on it like I did the m50 that thru hiker sells. It is very lite material, yes, but it truly is very comfortable fabric. It's just too bad materials like this aren't more widely available. It is quite remarkable something like Cuban can even be purchased.
    I haven't read much or researched m90. What have people been saying about that? Isn't that ripstop? Sorry putting this down on the phone so I can't research before writing.

  9. #69
    Needs more Hang time Catavarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosman View Post
    If there is a mini ripstop version of m50 available I will jump on it like I did the m50 that thru hiker sells. It is very lite material, yes, but it truly is very comfortable fabric. It's just too bad materials like this aren't more widely available. It is quite remarkable something like Cuban can even be purchased.
    I haven't read much or researched m90. What have people been saying about that? Isn't that ripstop? Sorry putting this down on the phone so I can't research before writing.
    It appears that there is a 10d ripstop, but the only supply I've found that specifically states it as such is sold by the 1000m roll from China. I'm looking at a potential source of .75oz ripstop (which puts it in the right weight for what an m50[10d] fabric would weigh with the ripstop feature added) in the US that sells it by the yard cheaper than Thru-hiker sells the non-ripstop. Of course according to them the material may weigh as much as 1.1 ripstop, so it may not be any better.

    The m90 ripstop I've not tried, but it weighs the same as 1.1 ripstop, so I can't justify the cost to try it out.
    Last edited by Catavarie; 03-17-2013 at 21:13.
    *Heaven best have trees, because I plan to lounge for eternity.

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  10. #70
    nuttysquirrel's Avatar
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    raiffnuke, where did you get your m50 and how much was it? thanks,nuttysquirrel.

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