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  1. #21
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    Some of us have had difficulty finding 4 oz canvas. Can you point us to any online sources?
    I get it by the roll from Boone Fabrics, a retail fabric store in Greensboro.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2Questions View Post
    2questions for you Mac.....imagine that!

    First, after reading your explanation about temp and humidity differentials and the benefit of canvas to achieve equalization of the differential, do you have an opinion which of the two is more important? Is the humidity differential more of a concern than the temperature differential? If so, could I assume that anytime it would snow...versus rain I would be better off using a canvas sock than a VBL?
    If there is a possibility of water in the liquid phase, do not use canvas. That's why I say it's good for conditions below 20*F.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2Questions View Post
    Secondly, have you tried to dye the canvas? I bet the canvas would dye well....you know for those who prefer the stealthy appearance?
    I have not!

    Quote Originally Posted by WV View Post
    Tim, Mac or Fourdog can speak to this better than I, but I believe the benefits of canvas start well below the temperature at which it might snow. This is real cold weather technology. For temps down to zero I'd use Pertex or Momentum 90.
    I say below 20*F, whether it snows or not. FourDog says below zero. I believe his viewpoint is that weather can warm up, and then you have the wrong gear. The point is that canvas is no good when water can achieve the liquid phase.

    Quote Originally Posted by WV
    My question about using canvas primarily for extreme cold may not apply to socks used under tarps. I may have been thinking of canvas tents or anoraks used without additional waterproof layers. That's when you really don't want to have rain or even heavy wet snow.
    I don't find a tarp useful below 20*F, when I use a canvas sock... except as a wind block.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDSH View Post
    Between the discussion of hydrophilic down treatment in another thread and the technical note above I'm thinking there must be a rule of thumb about relative humidity that determines the choice of fabric type for a sock.
    If you look at the psychrometric chart, you will find that the absolute humidity in extreme cold is ridiculously low, making the differential between ambient conditions and your skin huge. The over riding concern is to get rid of the water vapor in a way that prevents it from freezing in your insulation. You need high vapor permeability.

    - MacEntyre
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
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  2. #22
    2Questions's Avatar
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    Very good. Thanks MacEntyre. I'm looking at dewpoints on the p-chart now.
    2QZQ Hammock Specialties
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  3. #23
    SnrMoment's Avatar
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    I made my last one out of 1.1 camo ripstop. Have not had a condensation problem yet, but night time temps around here this year have been in the 30's. It's also pretty dry here - high desert climate if you're not in the mountains.
    Love is blind. Marriage is an eye opener.

  4. #24
    MacEntyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Questions View Post
    ...after reading your explanation about temp and humidity differentials and the benefit of canvas to achieve equalization of the differential...
    You cannot achieve equalization of the differential without dessication of the carbon unit... usually preceded by death.

    Just sayin'...
    "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
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  5. #25
    WV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Questions View Post
    Hmmmmm.....good question. The shiny side is inside. I can see it should be on the outside. I"ll try uncalendared tonight.
    No. you're right. The shiny side should be on the inside. The slightly fuzzy outside has more surface area for evaporation. At least that's the case with Pertex and Momentum, and I'd guess that calendered nylon works the same way.

  6. #26
    2Questions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacEntyre View Post
    You cannot achieve equalization of the differential without dessication of the carbon unit... usually preceded by death.

    Just sayin'...
    I guess I'll know when I get to that point. I'll be beef jerky in a hanging burrito!
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  7. #27
    2Tall's Avatar
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    Any more feedback on using M50 Or Nobull1 for a sock? I made a 1.1 calendered-dwr bottom/ 1.1 pure finish top Ted style that I plan to test soon but looking for the U.l. approach too. What temps are you having success with? What style covering?
    I was planning maybe a M50 bottom/1.1 pure finish...Any thoughts? Thanks!
    Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken!

  8. #28
    Senior Member otter's Avatar
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    I just used ripstop nylon on mine.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Rabid Deer's Avatar
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    Well, I just posted a similar comment in a different thread, but I'm looking at making a canvas sock of my own. I love the design of the Molly Mac Gear canvas sock, and I would love to support MacEntyre, but I cannot afford that piece of gear. I'm looking to make mine out of a cheap piece of Menards canvas drop cloth. I'm not sure if this is good enough canvas, though.
    I'll be camping in 10* and down to -30* or so.

  10. #30
    Shewie's Avatar
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    Uncoated ripstop for mine, it does a good job of keeping splashback and fog off my quilts.

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