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  1. #11
    DuctTape's Avatar
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    Too many clothes does NOT make one colder. Restrictive clothing makes one colder.

    It does not matter whether your insulation comes from more clothing or more down in a quilt, it provides more insulation. However, not using that insulation correctly can have negative effects as is the case with clothing which restricts blood flow. As is the case with a quilt with extra down pulling it away from the hammock bottom.

    A snug quilt and loose clothing will be warmer than any combination of of less optimal conditions.

  2. #12
    Jcavenagh's Avatar
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    I slept out with my Inc 20 last night in central IL. High wind and temps in low 50's(yes, 50s). I had to cinch the main suspension a little tighter, but once I did, I was really warm. I had to strip down to undies, tee shirt and socks and boy was I toasty. In the middle of the night, I kicked off the foot end of the TQ and wind blew right up my legs and chilled my spine. I got up and checked the whole UQ, could not fine any gaps...then when I got back in I relaized what had happened. I tucked my feet in the foot box and slept thru til the hunters started(around 5 am).
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  3. #13
    K0m4's Avatar
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    I'm just back from trying my 20*F incubator out in 0*C and some wind. Granted, I did not sleep in the hammock, I just laid down, but I wouldn't have needed anything but the sleeping bag liner on top to fall asleep, if that. I could just feel the warmth and snugness from below. In fact, I'm surprised I made it back without dozing! So my bet is on gaps somewhere or that it's hangning too loose.

  4. #14
    Senior Member HamMike's Avatar
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    Check your ends to make sure they are not cinched too tight. I had my phoenix out this weekend and got a chilly back in 40deg. As it turns out I had mine too snug and it was keeping the quilt from snugging up to the hammock. I'm not sure if this happens with the incubator. Worth a check.
    "He who makes a beast of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man." Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

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  5. #15
    Member Thirstybear's Avatar
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    How tall are you? I am six four and have learned that the incubator doesnt work the greatest for me. I starting using the phoenix and burrow with sewn foot box and have not even needed a pad yet!I did get the phoenix with the extra baffle to eliminate slipping when I toss and turn. But that seemed to fix the problem for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by gordonfreeman View Post
    Ok, I've got the new 2.0 full length HG incubator 20f with a 1oz overstuff, I was also using a Kelty Cosmic 20f down bag. The area was a bit windy and didn't setup the tarp, temps were down to about 32-35.

    I was kind of chilly, started out with cotton pants, t-shirt, polypro neck warmer and a took; later added wool long sleeve shirt. My core was doing ok after the wool but my legs kept getting cold. I was colder when I curled in a ball, I'm assuming the down got compressed when I did that. I had the kelty out on top of me like a top quilt I didn't zip it up.

    I clipped the s clips to the whoopie and it looked like it wasn't too tight and there weren't any gaps at the end due to the 2nd set of suspension being tight across the hammock ends.

    My buddy was using a 0degree synthetic and a thermarest in a grand trunk... He has maybe $200 in his entire setup and I've got what should be a primo setup and was cold... This has to be user error right?
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  6. #16
    Mountnman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuctTape View Post
    Too many clothes does NOT make one colder. Restrictive clothing makes one colder.

    It does not matter whether your insulation comes from more clothing or more down in a quilt, it provides more insulation. However, not using that insulation correctly can have negative effects as is the case with clothing which restricts blood flow. As is the case with a quilt with extra down pulling it away from the hammock bottom.

    A snug quilt and loose clothing will be warmer than any combination of of less optimal conditions.
    No disrespect but I must disagree, too many clothes will make you sweat therefore cause you to chill. If you let the bag do its job you should be able to sleep with nothing more than underwear and be fine. If temp drops below rating of insulation then supplementing with clothing is fine. Cold weather training while I was I'n the Marines we froze the first night with temps at 30 with all of our clothes on. Instructors laughed at us next morning and told us to sleep in our skivvies that night in our zero degree bag and we slept warm. To much of anything will cause dampness and you will get chilled.
    "I love not man the less, but Nature more."
    Byron

  7. #17
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuctTape View Post
    Too many clothes does NOT make one colder. Restrictive clothing makes one colder.

    It does not matter whether your insulation comes from more clothing or more down in a quilt, it provides more insulation. However, not using that insulation correctly can have negative effects as is the case with clothing which restricts blood flow. As is the case with a quilt with extra down pulling it away from the hammock bottom.

    A snug quilt and loose clothing will be warmer than any combination of of less optimal conditions.
    I agree about the clothing, though obviously some have a different experience. I mean, there is the whole " sleep naked" approach.

    Still, for me, I have always layered my sleep system just as I do my clothing. I doubt there is any way that, when just barely warm enough inside my PeaPod at 27F wearing and/or draping insulated clothing, that if I get rid of the insulated clothing I am going to warm up. I already know that from not being warm enough on top ( bottom warmth no problem ) at those temps with out the warm clothing.

    At the same time, a snug or tight fit does not seem to be required with the Speer Pea Pod for some reason. And I am still waiting in vain to see a thread titled something like " my back was cold at 30F in my 20F Pea Pod". Have not seen that one yet. It is very forgiving of set up errors.

    I have 3 UQs, and they all work fine for me, but all must be very snug. Here is my routine. I grab the left UQ top edge with my right hand, and grab the right quilt edge with left hand, and pull up. If I am able to move the quilt upwards at all, I tighten the suspension up. What I usually feel is as soon as I start lifting is the fabric lifting against my back, very snug. I really have to work at it to get it to where I'm fearful it is actually too tight. Which might damage something or be uncomfortable. But that taint easy to do. As already mentioned, my unloaded non-bridge hammocks are lifted - at least with my Yeti - 2 or 3 feet in the center. But might be different with quilts that don't have a differential cut, you might go to far and compress the down too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountnman View Post
    No disrespect but I must disagree, too many clothes will make you sweat therefore cause you to chill. If you let the bag do its job you should be able to sleep with nothing more than underwear and be fine. If temp drops below rating of insulation then supplementing with clothing is fine. Cold weather training while I was I'n the Marines we froze the first night with temps at 30 with all of our clothes on. Instructors laughed at us next morning and told us to sleep in our skivvies that night in our zero degree bag and we slept warm. To much of anything will cause dampness and you will get chilled.
    Well, for sure, IF you use too much insulation for the temps, and thus over heat and sweat, you are going to get cold. And as you say, if the temps are below the rating of the insulation, adding cloths will keep you warm. But the rating of the quilt will vary with the individual and conditions. ( conditions such as wind and if you are already exhausted and a bit chilled when going to bed ) Plus, Brand A's 30F bag might be no warmer than brand B's 40F bag or quilt.

    I don't doubt your experience during cold weather training. A zero bag plus lots of warm clothing in 30F temps = sweat for most of us. And sweat = cold later on. But if your bag had only been a 30 or 40F or 50F bag, you might have needed some warm clothing. And might not have done so well in just your skivvies. Or at least I probably wouldn't.

    But again, YMMV and HYOH etc, etc. Because I know there are people who say that a 30F quilt will be warmer at 20 or 30F if you are even buck naked. I can't argue with how it works for them. But for me, layering works, as do vapor barriers which some folks hate. But, especially with no VB, it will not pay to layer so much that I will over heat and start sweating and end up with damp insulation.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 12-02-2012 at 14:06.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  8. #18
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cataraftgirl View Post
    I'm going to go with cold legs due to cotton pants, and overall cold because of no tarp and wind.
    Yeah, that's what I'd go with.

  9. #19
    Mountnman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    I agree about the clothing, though obviously some have a different experience. I mean, there is the whole " sleep naked" approach.

    Still, for me, I have always layered my sleep system just as I do my clothing. I doubt there is any way that, when just barely warm enough inside my PeaPod at 27F wearing and/or draping insulated clothing, that if I get rid of the insulated clothing I am going to warm up. I already know that from not being warm enough on top ( bottom warmth no problem ) at those temps with out the warm clothing.

    At the same time, a snug or tight fit does not seem to be required with the Speer Pea Pod for some reason. And I am still waiting in vain to see a thread titled something like " my back was cold at 30F in my 20F Pea Pod". Have not seen that one yet. It is very forgiving of set up errors.


    I have 3 UQs, and they all work fine for me, but all must be very snug. Here is my routine. I grab the left UQ top edge with my right hand, and grab the right quilt edge with left hand, and pull up. If I am able to move the quilt upwards at all, I tighten the suspension up. What I usually feel is as soon as I start lifting is the fabric lifting against my back, very snug. I really have to work at it to get it to where I'm fearful it is actually too tight. Which might damage something or be uncomfortable. But that taint easy to do. As already mentioned, my unloaded non-bridge hammocks are lifted - at least with my Yeti - 2 or 3 feet in the center. But might be different with quilts that don't have a differential cut, you might go to far and compress the down too much.



    Well, for sure, IF you use too much insulation for the temps, and thus over heat and sweat, you are going to get cold. And as you say, if the temps are below the rating of the insulation, adding cloths will keep you warm. But the rating of the quilt will vary with the individual and conditions. ( conditions such as wind and if you are already exhausted and a bit chilled when going to bed ) Plus, Brand A's 30F bag might be no warmer than brand B's 40F bag or quilt.

    I don't doubt your experience during cold weather training. A zero bag plus lots of warm clothing in 30F temps = sweat for most of us. And sweat = cold later on. But if your bag had only been a 30 or 40F or 50F bag, you might have needed some warm clothing. And might not have done so well in just your skivvies. Or at least I probably wouldn't.

    But again, YMMV and HYOH etc, etc. Because I know there are people who say that a 30F quilt will be warmer at 20 or 30F if you are even buck naked. I can't argue with how it works for them. But for me, layering works, as do vapor barriers which some folks hate. But, especially with no VB, it will not pay to layer so much that I will over heat and start sweating and end up with damp insulation.
    It's really pretty simple. Too much u will sweat not enough you will be cold. Best advice I feel is know yourself and your equipment before going out away from home and it never hurts to take more gear in cold weather that way it's there if you need it.
    "I love not man the less, but Nature more."
    Byron

  10. #20
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountnman View Post
    It's really pretty simple. Too much u will sweat not enough you will be cold. Best advice I feel is know yourself and your equipment before going out away from home and it never hurts to take more gear in cold weather that way it's there if you need it.
    Well said!
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

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