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Thread: Huggerless HH's

  1. #11
    i think i'll make it a point to mention the implications of going strapless with the info i already include with my hammocks from now on.

    it should probably be done no matter what type of suspension is included, as it's fairly easy for someone to ditch their straps or even completely switch out their "webbing only" suspension for "rope only" thinking they're saving weight but not realize "why" it came with webbing instead.

    talking about it here is one thing, but ensuring every hammock sold comes with written info about the consequences of marking trees with rope will ensure everyone who purchases a hammock has access to the info weather they ever visit hf or not (at least those who purchase hammocks from participating manufactuers)

    i'm sold on the idea.

    fwiw, since the video's have come out, i've not sold one traditional line/strap suspension.
    Last edited by warbonnetguy; 12-21-2008 at 13:21.

  2. #12
    Senior Member NCPatrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_pan View Post

    We all have a role to play in educating the public and supporting do no harm hanging.

    Pan
    That's why I started my reply "Not to shift blame...". We all have our responsibilities to bear.


    "Civilization is the limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities."
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  3. #13
    Peter_pan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCPatrick View Post
    That's why I started my reply "Not to shift blame...". We all have our responsibilities to bear.
    NCP, No offense taken.... I thought your point was a good one.... My comment was meant only to reinforce your point we all have a role to play....

    Pan
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    www.jacksrbetter.com ... Largest supplier of camping quilts and under quilts...Home of the Original Nest Under Quilt, and Bear Mountain Bridge Hammock. 800 595 0413

  4. #14
    i added this to the info that i include with the hammocks:

    A note about Leave-No-Trace.

    Hammocks generally work with LNT practices and can be MUCH less impactive on the forest than ground shelters. Both Warbonnet suspension options incorporate webbing around the tree. This is to ensure the bark does not get marked. In almost all situations, wrapping the tree with rope instead will leave visible marks on the tree. Marking a tree is not LNT. Weather the tree is able to recover or if it is really even harmed in the first place is somewhat irrelevant. The tree CAN be harmed by these practices even if it doesn’t necessarily happen in every case. Land managers love to ban things they see as an “impact”, and visible marks on trees caused by hammocks are a sure-fire way to get hammocks banned in an area. Some places even already have blanket policies banning the tying of ANYTHING to a tree weather it causes harm or not. As more and more folks begin to use hammocks this becomes even more important. ALWAYS use webbing and make it a point to point out the consequences of rope on the tree to anyone you see doing such, for everyone’s sake.

  5. #15
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    I good point of reference to this might be the ringing of trees by beavers. I was told they eat the bark off of the tree all the way around. This kills the tree and makes it easier for them to bring the tree down. I'm not sure if this is completly true or a side affect. If it is, it is a good arguement for tree huggers.

    I am always amazed when I see people out enjoying the outdoors but at the same time are willing to trash it. Makes no sense to me.
    Is that too much to ask? Girls with frikkin' lasers on their heads?
    The hanger formly known as "hammock engineer".

  6. #16
    New Member Mokay's Avatar
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    A couple of comments

    Disclaimer: I'm not even a hanger, so what do I know! I do however agree with what has been said, and I how strongly some think about this, including the OP, who happens to be one of my favorite hiking partners, so it's not like I haven't heard this in person many times.

    However, coffee referred to the ringing of the tree by beavers and that it may (or may not) kill the tree. I feel obliged to add that this may very well be entirely dependent on the tree. If you have ever been to wine producing country in Spain, Portugal etc, you will have seen very large trees in the oak family that are grown specifically to produce cork for wine bottles. These trees have almost all the lower trunk bark harvested by removing the entire to inch or two of bark every decade or so. The bark is then treated and cut to make the wine corks. (see http://www.bag-a-cork.org/facts.html for example)

    Judging by the malleability of cork compared to other wood products, I am assuming that the bark of these trees would be considered quite soft, and that straps or ropes or whatever wrapped around them supporting weight would therefore produce visible indentations. However I can't imagine that such an indentation could be considered in any way as potentially dangerous to the trees as removal of the entire bark could be. Yet these cork trees live to grand old ages of around 500 years.

    So maybe ringing the tree creates issues for some trees and not others? However, whatever the potential for damage, I agree that LNT teaches us we should leave as little impact on the natural surrounding as possible, and as such we should therefore encourage others to do so. On that point, Warbonnetguy, you might want to change the spelling of your LNT insert to "Whether", not "Weather".

    Of course, if we REALLY wanted to have no impact on the outdoors then we'd all stay inside watching DVDs of how people used to enjoy the woods, rivers and trails before we were all banned from doing so! But where would be the fun in that??
    HUGS - J

  7. #17
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    Well, I've seen the cork trees in Portugal, what you say is true about their bark being stripped, that doesn' damage the underlying xylem and pholem vessels apparantly, at least on cork oaks.

    Off roaders have been urged for years to use "tree savers" and not to wrap winch cables around trees. This is not a myth, use webbing/tree huggers.

  8. #18
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    The words of that very wise man Archie Bunker come to mind. "We all have our bear to cross." I appreciate the willingness of folks to do their part.

    Often, paddling the Manistee, I will come across a site accessible by two track and some over zealous axe user has collared a tree. Over the years I watch them quickly deteriorate. Contrast areas accessible by vehicle as compared to those sites designated as part of the North Country Scenic Trail on the river, and damaged trees are real indicators of vehicles. Ropes, winches, various cutting tools, etc. all do damage. Campsites accessible only by the trail are generally undamaged.

    I have been running the Manistee for nearly 20 years and always clean up areas that are trashed. I have noticed that as I have done this, as a general rule, I see less trash. If people find it clean, they are more likely to keep it clean. My guess is that similarly, if they find damaged trees, they will more likely damage trees. I only use straps.
    Revolution is about the need to re-evolve political, economic and social justice and power back into the hands of the people, preferably through legislation and policies that make human sense. That's what revolution is about. Revolution is not about shootouts.

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  9. #19
    Senior Member TiredFeet's Avatar
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    Just my personal opinion, but I don't think it is so much a matter of education, but a matter of attitude on the part of the people doing the damage and leaving the trash. From my encounters with such people in the past, they know exactly what they are doing and you can be polite or nasty, try to educate them or try to shame them and the results are usually the same, they just flip you off. Now that is a general rule I have observed and does not apply to all. There are those who are just unknowing and once you politely point out the effects of their behavior they are willing to change and some, very small percentage, even thank you. The later are the reason I keep trying.

  10. #20
    Senior Member stoikurt's Avatar
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    Tree physiology

    Speaking as a forester: A tree can take a lot of abuse including removing most of the bark and not die. This does not mean it may not be harmed and possibly suffer in potential growth. The cambium layer is the only part of a tree that is actually growing. Cambium is the very thin layer right between the hard inner wood and the softer outer bark. It produces solid wood to the inside which gives the tree strength and produces bark to the outer side which helps provide protection for the tree. If the cambium layer becomes damaged it can still live, there again not being able to reach its full growth potential or possibly sacrifycing some limbs or parts of the tree. But if the cambium layer gets totally damaged all the way around the tree (called girdling) then it will die.
    Stoikurt
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