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  1. #1
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    HF's PayPal Policy - why it's important

    I know that some people simply don't like to follow rules, and that's something we deal with as it comes up. Others, though, will follow the rules if they understand why they're in place. (And still others follow the rules because they gave their word when they agreed to our TOS when they signed up...but not everyone cares about keeping their word.)

    So here's why HF says you can't use PayPal's Gift Option when you make a sale.

    1 - It's against PayPal's terms of service.
    2 - PayPal once froze the HammockForums account because our members were using the gift option and breaking PayPal's terms of service.
    3 - It protects the buyer in case of fraud. You can't file a complaint with PayPal if you use the gift option. This happens very rarely on HF, but it happens.

    So if you use the gift option for selling/buying items in HF's marketplace, you risk getting OUR account frozen again. That's not cool.

    It's clearly posted in the TOS that transactions cannot use the gift option, so sellers should factor that into the asking price. Our community here operates on mutual respect and manners...and it's very rude to ask another member in PM (after you have agreed upon the sale terms in the thread) to change the terms. That puts them on the spot, and risks something that's a benefit to this entire forum. We've gotten complaints about this happening, and we will remove access for it.

    Most of our members follow the rules because it's the right thing to do, and we thank all of you for that. We don't make random rules because of a power trip...there's a specific reason for each one. We'll even explain the reasons if you ask, rather than trying to sneak around them. Breaking your word to abide by the terms of service is not only disrespectful, it's harmful to the community. We don't tolerate much of either here; it's what makes HF special.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

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  2. #2
    The gift option always sounds like a way to save a couple of bucks, but I have completely stopped using it unless someone WANTS to pay me that way, or just does it on their own. {not on HF} of course.

    Reason being, I have had to make 2 different claims for one reason or another, and if I had used the gift option on either transaction, I would have been left high and dry.

  3. #3
    2Questions's Avatar
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    ZQ here....from the sellers view....all of JJ's reason, and a big plus...PayPal allows First Class shipping. Printing a FC label thru PayPal includes a tracking number at no additional charge. Shipping costs are a bit less also. No FC label printing on the USPS website.
    So, if you think you are doing a favor for the seller paying as a gift....in my opinion...being able to print a label and putting it out for pick-up is a big time saver for me, with the added benefits I mentioned.
    2QZQ Hammock Specialties
    Specializing in:
    Hennessy Hammock zipper modifications
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    and More!

    "The difference between genius and stupidity is.... genius has its limits" - Albert Einstein

  4. #4
    BrianWillan's Avatar
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    I agree.

    I also find it distasteful when I see sellers also asking for the buyer to pay the PayPal fees. I view offering PayPal and the associated fees as a cost of doing business. I also account for that in the price I either charge or accept for any given item.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment. - Unknown

    Eastern Great Lakes Trip Planning Announcement thread. Subscribe to keep informed on upcoming group hangs in this area.

  5. #5
    Senior Member hangnout's Avatar
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    +1 on both

    I have not purchased items for both reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by BrianWillan View Post
    I agree.

    I also find it distasteful when I see sellers also asking for the buyer to pay the PayPal fees. I view offering PayPal and the associated fees as a cost of doing business. I also account for that in the price I either charge or accept for any given item.

    Cheers

    Brian

  6. #6
    Senior Member WickedKlown2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianWillan View Post
    I agree.

    I also find it distasteful when I see sellers also asking for the buyer to pay the PayPal fees. I view offering PayPal and the associated fees as a cost of doing business. I also account for that in the price I either charge or accept for any given item.

    Cheers

    Brian
    You are correct on the buyer not having to pay the PayPal fee, it's the sellers responsibility.

    From the PayPal User Agreement : https://cms.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/?c...elling%20items



    Your obligations when receiving funds


    13.3. If you receive funds through our Services you must:

    1. pay any Fees for receiving the funds into your Account depending on whether it is a Commercial Transaction or Personal Transaction;
    2. not ask the buyer to send you the payment through a Personal Transaction if you sell goods or services and PayPal is chosen as the payment method; or
    3. not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting our Services as a payment method.
    Also from PayPal : https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

    Buying something :
    Always free - PayPal is free whenever you use it to buy something or make a payment in the US. The seller pays us a small fee to securely handle your payment. As a buyer, you never pay a fee to use PayPal.
    Every Forum that I am a member of with a BST section has the "no paypal fee for buyers" in their rules along with "no gifting" of payments.
    Dave aka WK2
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    Tread Lightly and Leave No Trace

  7. #7
    BrianWillan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedKlown2 View Post
    You are correct on the buyer not having to pay the PayPal fee, it's the sellers responsibility.

    From the PayPal User Agreement : https://cms.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/?c...elling%20items
    I've been using PayPal for years and I didn't know they had that in the User Agreement. It's good that it is done that way.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment. - Unknown

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  8. #8
    K0m4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianWillan View Post
    I also find it distasteful when I see sellers also asking for the buyer to pay the PayPal fees. I view offering PayPal and the associated fees as a cost of doing business. I also account for that in the price I either charge or accept for any given item.
    I disagree. Most FS threads is not about businesses, it's people selling their excess gear either because they don't need it anymore or to salvage a few bucks if you got something wrong. If you're clear in the ad about adding the fees into the price, it is nothing different from asking to add the shipping costs. You should be upfront with it though.

  9. #9
    BrianWillan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K0m4 View Post
    I disagree. Most FS threads is not about businesses, it's people selling their excess gear either because they don't need it anymore or to salvage a few bucks if you got something wrong. If you're clear in the ad about adding the fees into the price, it is nothing different from asking to add the shipping costs. You should be upfront with it though.
    Refer back to post #12 in this thread, which quotes the PayPal User Agreement.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment. - Unknown

    Eastern Great Lakes Trip Planning Announcement thread. Subscribe to keep informed on upcoming group hangs in this area.

  10. #10
    K0m4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianWillan View Post
    Refer back to post #12 in this thread, which quotes the PayPal User Agreement.

    Cheers

    Brian
    When there's a transaction between two individuals, neither of which is conducting a business, I think it's perfectly fair to say "I don't want to pay money for the fact that you are paying me money for this item I'm selling, so I'll include the fees for making the transaction easy in the price". Then the total will add up to more or less than what anyone is willing to pay, and decisions will be taken accordingly. As justjeff said: semantics - claiming it afterwards is not right. But I think it's cleaner to state that paypal fees are in the price. I have done it all the time on other forums, to me it's nothing strange.

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