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  1. #11
    Hooch's Avatar
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    JJ, that page is dope, yo. Word up.
    "If you play a Nicleback song backwards, you'll hear messages from the devil. Even worse, if you play it forward, you'll hear Nickleback." - Dave Grohl

  2. #12
    Senior Member Alan's Avatar
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    JJ,

    Have you, or anyone else, done a rudimentary study on the ring buckle system and the webbing slip phenomenom some have experienced?

    Like I said, when I created and used my ring buckle system a week or so ago...I experienced some slipping, even while using a half hitch in the webbing right behind the rings to try and prevent the slipping.

    I'm just thinking out loud here, but after getting my Omega Pacific rappel rings out and looking at them and playing around...it got me wondering: does the size of the rings make a difference?

    By that, I mean the thickness. I don't mean circumference. Do thinner rings hold better? These Omega Pacific rings are THICK. I wonder if the thickness is preventing a tight purchase on the webbing.

    I wonder if using the thinner SMC rappel rings would have made all the difference...

    Think there's a connection there or am I just grasping?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hog On Ice View Post
    very good summary as far as it goes - things not mentioned : 1.) single line suspension system with its marlingspike hitches for tree huggers and for hanging the hammock from the line; 2.) use of a single ring at the hammock with the strap being attached to the ring with a girth hitch; 3.) use of a round turn and two half hitches for attaching strap to tree; 4.) tying the strap to a short loop of spectra that is attached to the hammock using a sheet bend
    HOI - I actually have the beginning of an SLS section coded...I just need to do some more research on it b/c I haven't used one yet. Same with the single ring...it's basically like the biner and double slipknot setup, only lighter. I just hadn't done it yet and didn't see any good pictures jump out. I plan on getting some of my own and plugging that one in as well. Re: your points 3 and 4, can you point me to some links? Not sure what you have in mind.

    Alan - I haven't done a study b/c I don't slip with my rings. I can only remember one time in the field when I slipped and it's b/c I didn't have the webbing lined up. But other peoples' setups slip every time...I'm sure there are several variables between the systems that we haven't discussed that could explain the discrepancy. I don't know how much thickness of the rings affects holding power, but it sure affects strength of the rings. I don't know where to find thinner rings that are still strength-rated, but be sure to post if you find a source.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Alan's Avatar
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    Long term, the ENO straps just stretch too much and the ring/webbing setup seems to be slipping on me. I'm going to see how the Ed Speer improved wrap system works over the next couple of days and I'd like to experiment with the cinch buckle system before finally deciding on a system that works best for me.

    Just Jeff...this has been said before, but I'll say it again: Thanks for all the hard work and dedication on your hiking page. Particularly the hammock camping information. It's an invaluable resource!

  5. #15
    Senior Member bob2guns's Avatar
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    titanium rinnggs!!!!!

    Alan - I haven't done a study b/c I don't slip with my rings. I can only remember one time in the field when I slipped and it's b/c I didn't have the webbing lined up. But other peoples' setups slip every time...I'm sure there are several variables between the systems that we haven't discussed that could explain the discrepancy. I don't know how much thickness of the rings affects holding power, but it sure affects strength of the rings. I don't know where to find thinner rings that are still strength-rated, but be sure to post if you find a source.
    i was thinking of trying some 4mm titanium rings out. might be the thinner ones your looking for. i'll get the specs if you want........
    Last edited by Just Jeff; 01-03-2009 at 23:30. Reason: fixed quote

  6. #16
    Senior Member bob2guns's Avatar
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    ok--found it.....titanium welded rings:

    W-TR3 3mm 1/8X1.25 OD

    W-TR4 4mm 5/32X1.5 OD

    no listed ratings

  7. #17
    Senior Member Alan's Avatar
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    Did a quick Google search and discovered something. On page 112 of "The Mountaineering Handbook" by Craig Connally, he points out that aluminum and titanium rappel rings, although they can be rated at 10kN, are just not that well thought of among climbers.

    I have ZERO knowledge about rappel rings and/or the strength of a given material. All I have to draw from is that the above is Craig's opinion on the subject.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    We're also not subjecting them to dynamic loads or situations where our lives depend on them. Failure would normally result in a bruised ego and maybe sleeping on the ground for the night. That's pretty terrible, but still ranks just barely under dying.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

    - My site: http://www.tothewoods.net/
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    IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES LONGER

  9. #19
    Senior Member 6 feet over's Avatar
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    As usual, well done.

    Thanks.
    The harder I work, the luckier I get.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    We're also not subjecting them to dynamic loads or situations where our lives depend on them. Failure would normally result in a bruised ego and maybe sleeping on the ground for the night. That's pretty terrible, but still ranks just barely under dying.
    Jeff... knock on wood... that has been the case so far. But as we all know, falls of a foot or so might not always just be a bruised ego. Depends on how fragile one is, how they land, and what they land on. We need to be reasonably cautious and conservative with all this. The rub is different folks have different ideas of what is reasonably cautious and conservative and sometimes that concept gets challenged after the fact when injuries have occurred.

    My advise as an old friend would to be careful what you post about all this. I took a few unexpected falls last summer learning the hard way that it isn't all about the knots you use, but the material you use those knots with as well. In my case I discovered the hard way that slippery AmSteel Blue, which has some amazingly useful properties, requires its own set of rules for which knots hold and which knots release after the load is removed.
    Youngblood AT2000

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