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  1. #11
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    Based on my limited experience my personal bias is for more insulation bottom side. I can take the Mt Washington as an underquilt with the Nest as a top quilt down into at least the low 20F. Reverse the quilts and I very much doubt my body would be nice and warm. Tough to sleep in comfort with a cold back, butt and shoulder.
    Noel V.

  2. #12
    Senior Member lenle01's Avatar
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    Heber, You are not alone. I recently made a KAQ for my HH out of 5oz climashield and found it kinda chilly on the backside @ 25*. I'm thinking about adding a layer of 1.8oz primaloft sport. I used speers 1.9oz ripstop thinking it would have more wind resistance and trap more heat in. What fabric did you use (1.1, 1.9)? Does anybody know if a different weight fabric really makes a difference in temp rating?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Heber's Avatar
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    I used 1.1 oz ripstop for my quilt.

  4. #14
    Senior Member lenle01's Avatar
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    ? for cannibal or warbonnetguy

    Are the removable insulation layers sewn to a carrier scrim or nylon? Do you have to turn the uq inside out every time you want to change the layering? How do you keep the insulation from shifting? Sorry for jumping in on your thread Heber.
    Last edited by lenle01; 01-12-2009 at 22:40.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Cannibal's Avatar
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    I'll let WBG answer the attachment question. I suppose you could switch out the insulation without turning it inside out, but it would suck. Turning it inside out is really easy since there is a zipper at the base. The layers are held in place with quilt loops. When you want to change out layers just snip, replace, reloop. It didn't take me an hour to do.
    Trust nobody!

  6. #16
    Senior Member lenle01's Avatar
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    Thank's Cannibal!

    I've decided to add a 2.5oz layer of climashield to the 5.0oz layer I already have. Adding a zipper should be pretty easy. The ability to add or remove a layer is going to be great!

    Heber- I do apologize again for jumping in. Hopefully your ? has been answered.

  7. #17
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    You want more insulation on the bottom than on the top. It is easier to vent topside insulation and sleep more comfortably. That is how we sleep on normal beds and we have developed instincts on how to vent, roll over, tuck in covers, etc, in our sleep.

    If you have more insulation on top than on bottom and you get into a situation where you are cold on the bottom you can get into a bad situation. When you are cold because you don't have enough insulation on the bottom, your 1st instinct might be to tuck in your top side insulation (since that is all you can get to) and overheat on the top. That doesn't help and isn't a good situation to be in... actually it can be pretty miserable.

    Whenever you are camping and wake up cold, you need to try and determine just where you are cold. Then you need to think just what you can do to remedy that. Sometimes it is just a simply adjustment with your gear and other times you need to do something. Gloves, hats, unused clothes, etc can be used to quickly shore up a cold spot. Small pieces of closed cell foam can do the trick as well. Sometimes it might be wind getting to you and you might need to get up and change how you pitched a tarp or move something to block it. The wind is another reason you want more bottom side insulation than top side because the bottom side is generally more exposed to the wind.
    Youngblood AT2000

  8. #18
    Senior Member animalcontrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    cannibal basically had twice, not 4 times what you have, his 4 layers are only 2.5 ea.

    yeah, 5.0 to 20 deg seems optimistic. anybody have a single layer 5.0 cs tq?
    I have made the exact same TQ/UQ (1 layer of 5 oz Climashield) as the original poster...

    I used it as both a TQ and UQ at different times. My results may vary by user...
    TQ...temp rating was spot on...rated to 20* and I was "comfortable" (not warm or cold) at 19* I wouldn't push it any further...I made my mental limit of 25*
    UQ...not as warm...Cold Butt Syndrome and some shoulder coolness at 25*. I wasn't 100% comfortable with my UQ suspension setup but even if my theories had worked...I would have guess my limit would have been about 30* for the UQ alone. I was going to add an upper torso pad and use it to 20*

    IMHO, the UQ rating would be lower for any insulation for 2 reasons...
    1. heat rises. Hence, it is easier to trap it above you
    2. gravity. A TQ uses gravity to cover you. A UQ uses engineering (a suspension) to hold it against you. Many more things to adjust and can go wrong.

    Disclaimer - I'm a coldish sleeper...I normally exceed the temp rating of sleeping bags by 5-10*
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Heber's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for the insights.

    Lenle01, don't even worry about jumping on the thread. It's all good info and I'm learning from all of it.

    I think animalcontrol's instincts are right. Now that I think about it the fact that heat rises makes it harder to heat up the air under you and makes it harder to keep that warm air there.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heber View Post
    Thanks everyone for the insights.

    Lenle01, don't even worry about jumping on the thread. It's all good info and I'm learning from all of it.

    I think animalcontrol's instincts are right. Now that I think about it the fact that heat rises makes it harder to heat up the air under you and makes it harder to keep that warm air there.
    That's what I was thinking. Although cold is not an entity (it is the description we assign to the absence of heat) but heat convects, heat rises, and as it rises something must take it's place. As heat rises, it feels like cold moves in and takes it's place. The top quilt slows the rising of heat, and the under quilt will help prevent that cold from getting in and replacing the heat as it moves up. You could also think if an under quilt like a partial vacuum that as the top quilt will prevent the heat from moving up, the vacuum sucks that heat down. If that makes sense. Using silnylon will help restrict the flow of air, but heat will move independent of airflow. Slower, but it will still move. Thus a good layer of insulation to trap that heat and restrict it's movement is the best bet.

    I don't know if that makes any sense, but maybe it helps.
    Last edited by Doftya; 01-13-2009 at 19:55. Reason: Really bad grammar.

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