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Thread: Vertex Clone?

  1. #11
    Tijereyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tijereyes View Post
    So I thought about it, and here's what I've come up with. I scaled the middle piece so that it should fit the entire way along the side and leave a quarter inch at top and bottom for the cord through the channel to come out.

    What do you think? Any changes you think I should make?
    Whoops, just noticed that the little bit at the end is supposed to get sewn into the channeling down there. That simplifies things a bit (one less bit of sewing ).

    So, on my diagram distance F would increase by 0.25".
    Last edited by Tijereyes; 03-06-2013 at 16:03. Reason: Clicked "submit" too soon.

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    wow much neater drawing, ok it looks good the only thing i would do differently is the channeling is going to be holding your weight and potentially that of two people. I made a 6 inch fold back on the ends, two inches for the channeling and 4 to reinforce with an unhealthy ammount of stitching. I copied the method used in this claytor thread

    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...Claytor&page=3

    i also did the webbing re-enforcements on the end that are talked about in this thread, if it is going to hold weight on stitches not material i was happy to go for overkill! also it might not be clear from my crappy drawing but the angle of th triangle changes after the head and shoulder line steeper before and more gradual towards the feet its a small detail which may make no difference to the finnished product but just thought Id mention it.

    also looking at your measurements, c+e need to add up to the length of the hammock beds minus the head and foot channeling (in my case, 2 inches on each end) f will be the six inch fold back i mentioned above. so i attaced the triangle to the beds after the head end channeling but before the foot end channeling... make sense? or clear as mud?
    Last edited by pommychris; 03-07-2013 at 00:27. Reason: im slow at maths

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pommychris View Post
    wow much neater drawing, ok it looks good the only thing i would do differently is the channeling is going to be holding your weight and potentially that of two people. I made a 6 inch fold back on the ends, two inches for the channeling and 4 to reinforce with an unhealthy ammount of stitching. I copied the method used in this claytor thread

    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...Claytor&page=3

    i also did the webbing re-enforcements on the end that are talked about in this thread, if it is going to hold weight on stitches not material i was happy to go for overkill! also it might not be clear from my crappy drawing but the angle of th triangle changes after the head and shoulder line steeper before and more gradual towards the feet its a small detail which may make no difference to the finnished product but just thought Id mention it.

    also looking at your measurements, c+e need to add up to the length of the hammock beds minus the head and foot channeling (in my case, 2 inches on each end) f will be the six inch fold back i mentioned above. so i attaced the triangle to the beds after the head end channeling but before the foot end channeling... make sense? or clear as mud?
    Hmm.. So after you put everything together, you have something that looks like this, yes?



    The interior shelf part is the green in the image. I wonder if it'd be possible to figure out what kind of shape the curve should have? Or if doing a curve is even worth it? On your sketch it looks like you've got part of the curve made by the 24" / 14" / 3" / 7" points. I need to set up a single gathered end w/ the same dimensions and see what kind of shape the edge has; I might try to measure the curve and reproduce it in fabric.. or maybe that's just crazy talk and it doesn't matter

    So at the foot end, you only have one channel/connection point for both hammock bodies? On the original Vertex it looks like there are two separate end channels for the two bodies - do you find that doubling them both into one channel reduces stability? That's the only thing I'd be worried about. If you don't combine them, I guess you could reduce the length of the middle part a little bit. But then, you'd have the seam bearing all the stress, rather than having it sewn into the channel...

    I think I need to think about it some more

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    yeah the shelf is green in mine, it wasnt actually cut on a curve but with straigt lines, Ive never seen a flex or vertex so it was very much guess work on my part. a curve may make laying across the felled seem smoother to the feel but i really dont know. The foot end is one big gathered channel yes, its based more on the flex than the vertex in that regard, i dont think it effects stability as it still get fixed to the same attachment point (ie. a single tree) it also made the top cover slightly less confusing.

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    Top Cover?

    Quote Originally Posted by pommychris View Post
    yeah the shelf is green in mine, it wasnt actually cut on a curve but with straigt lines, Ive never seen a flex or vertex so it was very much guess work on my part. a curve may make laying across the felled seem smoother to the feel but i really dont know. The foot end is one big gathered channel yes, its based more on the flex than the vertex in that regard, i dont think it effects stability as it still get fixed to the same attachment point (ie. a single tree) it also made the top cover slightly less confusing.
    Ok, I've got the hammock body figured out now. Material's purchased and just waiting for me to have the time to cut & sew Going with a double body bottom with zippers along the edges (like the Claytors) to put in our pads (we've got the Exped Downmats, and we really want to make them work ). Center divider I'm using pretty much exactly your drawing; the only difference is I'm going to have two separate ropes from the foot end as well. Going to run a piece of webbing along the head end for reinforcement, too -- I'll post a pic of that later, if anyone's interested.

    I'm starting to think about how to attach the top cover now -- Here are my initial thoughts. I'm thinking at the head end to start with a rectangle of fabric that's as wide as the whole top end (48+48+24 = 120"), sewn along the edges before I gather the ends. The short sides of the rectangle will get sewn to the outer sides of the hammock, with webbing pockets for the poles sewn in between the top cover and the hammock body. I'll sew a 2" channel through the top cover to stick the pole in, and get my arc that way.

    For the foot end, I'll do something similar, though it'll be shorter (48+48+6). Perhaps just tie it up to the foot end tree, rather than have a second pole. Bugnet will just be a big trapezoid that zips between them.

    Second idea for top cover -- include structural ridgelines on both hammock bodies. Then, run full-length detachable zipper along each side, and just have a large removeable bugnet or weather cover. Crimp at the ends somehow; maybe have a third zipper that goes along the top edge of the center separator. Or I could do the same thing without ridgelines, and just add pull-outs like the claytor hammocks.

    That's what I'm tossing around so far. Any thoughts/comments?

  6. #16
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    Wow!! that is one good looking piece of awesomeness!! Thanks for the pics I was beginning to think a DIY version had never been attempted.

    It may be a while before my sewing skills are at that level but this is something I must have. I am just not willing to pay Clarks price for it. I get enough lip from the wifey about the chunk I shelled out for my North American.

  7. #17
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    Im glad youve got a plan for your bed layout, so just to check are you putting a zipper between the layers of the hammock to zip your pad in to the sleeve? if so thats not really necesary one large opening at the head end and a smaller one at the foot will allow you to slip in a pad and manouver it in to position.

    The topsheet definatly caused me a few headaches mostly in figuring out the size of the arcs and length of poles i would need to make it. the two smaller arcs make the hammock a lot roomier inside just one might feel a little tight, not sure, ill experiment with mine and see how it looks. I suppose thats one of the reasons the vertex has such a large arc (besides the wider shelf providing a bigger footprint) Im also not sure how the arc stays up when the bugnet isnt deployed. sorry im not trying to add to your headache!

    I actually started with a over large rectangle of ripstop and working from the center of the long edge attached it from of the middle of the shelf all the way across the head ends of the two beds. Then i gathered the hammock at both ends and hung it up to get an idea of how to lay things out.

    Next i used a long thin flexible plastic rod that i cut to the length of the arc i wanted, then fitted it in to the hammock at about the level of my head and shoulder line and began to pin a rectangle along the other long edge to it while it was in an upright position. Its best to start in the middle of the rectangle and have plenty of excess and trim it off afterwards. once attached I marked along the finnished arc with a sharpie so i could hem along that line.

    The short edges of the rectange are where i kinda had to wing it your going to end up with some pleats you have to sew in, and they actally leave little tunnels for mossies an other creepy crawlys to get in i had to seal them up by hand.

    You might have trouble with one long channel for the pole as it is going to move quite a lot when your in the hammock and may put a lot of strain the seam I opted for three fairly wide sleeves to let every thing move about a bit.

    structural ridge lines may be tricky there is not enough sag in mine for a ridgeline to give you head room i attached webbing loops at each gather of mine for them but realised they wouldnt work once i was finnished,

    wow! i hope that made sence let me know if you want me to take any pictures of bits that are confusing or just do a better job of explaining them

    Quote Originally Posted by Hambone View Post
    Wow!! that is one good looking piece of awesomeness!! Thanks for the pics I was beginning to think a DIY version had never been attempted.

    It may be a while before my sewing skills are at that level but this is something I must have. I am just not willing to pay Clarks price for it. I get enough lip from the wifey about the chunk I shelled out for my North American.
    Thanks Hambone I can see why clarks cost so much though. a lot more than a tablecloth and a tent pole!!

  8. #18
    Tijereyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pommychris View Post
    Im glad youve got a plan for your bed layout, so just to check are you putting a zipper between the layers of the hammock to zip your pad in to the sleeve? if so thats not really necesary one large opening at the head end and a smaller one at the foot will allow you to slip in a pad and manouver it in to position.
    I guess I'm confused here. I was planning to make a shortish hammock (8' long; my wife and I are both below 5'6). When I tested out my tablecloth hammock that I cut to size (which btw was super comfortable) with my pad, it seemed like the pad kept wanting to poke out at the corners.

    So what I imagine you're saying is to do something like Risk's zHammock (http://www.imrisk.com/zhammock/zhammock.htm), where you have openings between the layers where they're just not sewed together. Is that what you meant? I feel like the pad would poke out at the corners and not wrap around you any more, and give you cold shoulders. Of course, zipping it in would mean that you have to actually get up / unzip / adjust, rather than just reaching down and shoving.

    The topsheet definatly caused me a few headaches mostly in figuring out the size of the arcs and length of poles i would need to make it. the two smaller arcs make the hammock a lot roomier inside just one might feel a little tight, not sure, ill experiment with mine and see how it looks. I suppose thats one of the reasons the vertex has such a large arc (besides the wider shelf providing a bigger footprint) Im also not sure how the arc stays up when the bugnet isnt deployed. sorry im not trying to add to your headache!

    I actually started with a over large rectangle of ripstop and working from the center of the long edge attached it from of the middle of the shelf all the way across the head ends of the two beds. Then i gathered the hammock at both ends and hung it up to get an idea of how to lay things out.

    Next i used a long thin flexible plastic rod that i cut to the length of the arc i wanted, then fitted it in to the hammock at about the level of my head and shoulder line and began to pin a rectangle along the other long edge to it while it was in an upright position. Its best to start in the middle of the rectangle and have plenty of excess and trim it off afterwards. once attached I marked along the finnished arc with a sharpie so i could hem along that line.

    The short edges of the rectange are where i kinda had to wing it your going to end up with some pleats you have to sew in, and they actally leave little tunnels for mossies an other creepy crawlys to get in i had to seal them up by hand.

    You might have trouble with one long channel for the pole as it is going to move quite a lot when your in the hammock and may put a lot of strain the seam I opted for three fairly wide sleeves to let every thing move about a bit.

    structural ridge lines may be tricky there is not enough sag in mine for a ridgeline to give you head room i attached webbing loops at each gather of mine for them but realised they wouldnt work once i was finnished,

    wow! i hope that made sence let me know if you want me to take any pictures of bits that are confusing or just do a better job of explaining them
    That kind of makes sense. I'd already sort of come to the same conclusion regarding ridgelines; if I'm going to do a SRL then I might as well not worry about the vertex-style overcover. I had a couple of other thoughts on the overcover that I wanted to run by you, too.

    Idea 1 is to have a Claytor-style bugnet. Basically cut it the same size as the hammock before it's gethered (so it'd be 2 rectangles + the shelf piece), and then lift it up with tie-outs on the top of the bugnet. I feel like that might work, but at the same time I feel like I'd miss the "headboard" feel that the overcover has. Although I don't suppose you could lean back on it anyway, so it's mostly psychological.

    One way to get around that is to make the top cover out of 3 pieces -- one strip that runs along the top (and is sewn to the top end and along to your shoulders), one strip along the bottom that's sewn to where your feet would go, and in the middle a bugnet that unzips & rolls up to the top. You could also put an external zipper there to attach a solid overcover to totally enclose the hammock.. basically this would be exactly like the vertex, except that both head and foot end would be held up by strings.

    The other thought I had was for a simple way to do the overcover (which may or may not work at all). Basically the idea is that you start by determining how long you want your arc to be. I have a big flexible plastic piece too; after I get the body sewn together I'd just hold it up and see what I thought would give me sufficient headroom. Measure the length of the arc, and write it down. Next, figure out how far down the hammock sides you want the cover to extend. My thought was to have it come down to shoulder level (the same place as where there is an angle in the shelf piece). Measure that distance too.

    Now you have 4 distances: 1) the length of the arc, 2) and 3) the distance down the sides of the hammock, and 4) the length of the head end of the hammock (or foot end) ungathered. Then you would cut out a trapezoid. The long side would be the length of the head end, the short sides would be how far down the sides the cover will come, and the shorter long side would be the length of the arc. Then you could just sew it on to the edges of the hammock, gather, and you're done. (well, done after you sew in loops for the pole, I mean. and bugnet. And foot end cover. And weather shield :-P)

    Does that make any sense? Right now it seems like a good idea to me, but I have yet to actually make the body of the hammock, so I'm severely taxing my ability to visualize.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Tijereyes; 03-21-2013 at 17:12. Reason: More details on option 1 for cover.

  9. #19
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    yeah the openings are just like the z hammock ones but only on the outside edge of each bed the inside edge both layers are sewn in to the shelfs felled seam it may be different with a shorter hammock but i find once your body weight is in there the pad co operates a bit better plus i think you said you have the exped downmats didnt you? they have an attachmet point for a pillow you can always tie them in to the sleave so they cant slide away on ya.

    Its definatly possible to just suspend either a bug net or top cover by ropes, i put attachment points on mine in case i have a pole malfunction, but the main difference that the poes make is to open up the inside of the hammock. youll see what i mean when you do a dummy hang of the beds and put the flexible pole in. you could achieve this to an extent with guy lines out to the sides.

    [QUOTE=Tijereyes;969089]The other thought I had was for a simple way to do the overcover (which may or may not work at all). Basically the idea is that you start by determining how long you want your arc to be. I have a big flexible plastic piece too; after I get the body sewn together I'd just hold it up and see what I thought would give me sufficient headroom. Measure the length of the arc, and write it down. Next, figure out how far down the hammock sides you want the cover to extend. My thought was to have it come down to shoulder level (the same place as where there is an angle in the shelf piece). Measure that distance too.

    Now you have 4 distances: 1) the length of the arc, 2) and 3) the distance down the sides of the hammock, and 4) the length of the head end of the hammock (or foot end) ungathered. Then you would cut out a trapezoid. The long side would be the length of the head end, the short sides would be how far down the sides the cover will come, and the shorter long side would be the length of the arc. Then you could just sew it on to the edges of the hammock, gather, and you're done. (well, done after you sew in loops for the pole, I mean. and bugnet. And foot end cover. And weather shield :-P)

    Does that make any sense? Right now it seems like a good idea to me, but I have yet to actually make the body of the hammock, so I'm severely taxing my ability to visualize.

    your half right about the trapeziodal shape of the hood, but because its an arc the distance from the centre of the arc to the center of the shlelf (ie. straight up the middle of the "headboard ") is more than the distance from the corner of the bed to the head and shoulder point you want the hood to cover you too, so you end up with excess along that edge.

    Also i dont know if you have concidered the type of pole you are going to use yet, standard fiberglass 9mm tent poles arent flexible enough to make the arc you will need i had a hard time sourcing thinner tent poles i ended up making my own from 6.5 mm fiberglass kite rods tricky stuff i had more than a few breakages due to varying qualitys of rod but ive since learned that clark sell replacement poles so they might be an easier option and you can just cut them down to the length you need.

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