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  1. #1
    Senior Member Banjoman's Avatar
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    HHSS condensation

    Not sure how it happened, but I got a considerable amount of condensation that collected in the undercover this past Saturday night. Here's my layering in order from top to bottom: spaceblanket, HH ocf pad, AHE Jarbidge, HH undercover. I'm not sure how that much condensation got around the spaceblanket. My best guess is that when I was breathing and laying on my side, the undercover was catching my exhalations and funneling my breath underneath me. I checked the weather history records for the area where I was camping, and it got down to about 18*F. One other tidbit of information is that I ended up not setting my tarp up because the moonlit view was too nice... I don't think that should be a factor though.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
    Last edited by Banjoman; 02-18-2013 at 11:36.

  2. #2
    Senior Member huauqui's Avatar
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    I took a look at your pictures (great looking rig by the way) Did you have on all the coats that are laying under plus the bag that is in the stuff sack? Could you give us some information about what was overtop of you. I am wondering if maybe you actually start perspiring. Maybe it isn't condensation but instead it is actually sweat.

    That is just a thought, I will await the Master BillyBob and his reply.

    On a side note, how does the jarbridge fit under the pad but inside the undercover. It sure looks like it works well. I have a HHSS and love it, I have a new underquilt and have been wondering if it would work layered as you have done it or if I needed to hang it under everything if needed.

    Thanks for the pics and I hope we figure this one out. It seems the HHSS works real well but once in a while produces moisture.

    huauqui

  3. #3
    Senior Member Banjoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huauqui View Post
    I took a look at your pictures (great looking rig by the way) Did you have on all the coats that are laying under plus the bag that is in the stuff sack? Could you give us some information about what was overtop of you. I am wondering if maybe you actually start perspiring. Maybe it isn't condensation but instead it is actually sweat.

    I'm not sure what kind of condensation it is, but I'd bet some of it is sweat. I was pretty warm when I first got into the hammock. I had on some pretty warm layers too. However, what surprised me was that the condensation made it down to the undercover when I used the spaceblanket. I thought I had the spaceblanket set up pretty well where it was covering all of my underside, but maybe not.

    That is just a thought, I will await the Master BillyBob and his reply.

    On a side note, how does the jarbridge fit under the pad but inside the undercover. It sure looks like it works well. I have a HHSS and love it, I have a new underquilt and have been wondering if it would work layered as you have done it or if I needed to hang it under everything if needed.

    The Jarbidge works pretty well like this. It helps holds the ocf pad up to your body and adds insulation up a little higher on the sides. The fit inside the undercover is just fine. However, with my condensation issues I would probably balk at putting in a down-stuffed underquilt and stick with synthetic.

    Thanks for the pics and I hope we figure this one out. It seems the HHSS works real well but once in a while produces moisture.

    Glad you enjoyed the pics. I think this current setup was about at its lower temperature range for me - I could maybe get down to 15*F and avoid shivering. In regards to usefulness, this is fine because I don't think I would ever intend to camp in colder weather than this. But in my mind, I would still like to be able to be comfortable at lower temperatures. In order for that to happen, I would basically have to upgrade everything including my clothes.

    huauqui
    Oh, I'm also wondering what BillyBob will say as well

  4. #4
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    I'm not Billybob, but I am curious what top insulation, and what clothing you wore while in the hammock.

    I've had some moisture/condensation show up on top of my SB before, but never that much. However, in my case I'm sleeping INSIDE of a synthetic sleeping bag, and I'm pretty sure that any condensation being caused is occurring due to sweat...and that is minimized by the fact that I'm sleeping INSIDE the sleeping bag, so there's very little actual moisture making it out of the bag.

    Did you notice any condensation of any kind on the bug netting? Or on the snakeskins that your tarp was in?

  5. #5
    BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Well, BillyBob is always a little confused also as to how moisture can get past the space blanket(sb). Now sweat occurring with all of that insulation, from maybe being way past warm enough, is always a real possibility. ( a jarbridge under the HH OCG pad/sb is a lot of insulation. Probably close to what kwpapke used to stay warm at minus 27 ) But still what is always surprising is how it(sweat or vapor) gets down past the sb into the undercover(UC). This has never happened to me, but it has been reported a few times by others.

    I am actually leaning towards your 1st theory: your breath hitting th high sides of the undercover as you side sleep. A sb is a VB, for sure, but it is a little different than VB clothing or liner bags. It is not sealed off where the sb meets the hammock/undercover. Even though it has not happened to me, from 14F to the 40s, I can see how if you were sleeping on your side you could breath right into the highest areas of the under cover. If so, condensation would be almost guaranteed. If it happened, I see nothing to keep it from running right down the side of the UC into the bottom. Of course, I'm just guessing, as I have no experience with this problem. My worst case scenario is a few drops collected in the low point of the sb, which got neither me, the hammock or any insulation wet.

    One other theory has been proposed and could have some merit: the air trapped between the sb and the UC has a certain amount of humidity/vapor in that air. And it is at least somewhat trapped down there. As the temperature drops through the night, and other conditions are just right, that vapor condenses. But what this does not explain is why a few folks have had consistent problems with condensation, and some of us rarely or never do. Which makes me not that sure that this could be the explanation. But who knows? If it is the problem, I don't know what could be done about it.

    But as for the vapor from a persons body getting past the sb and condensing in the UC, I don't see how it could. Unless it is condensed breath running down the UC sides. To check out that theory, you might look into a Shug style breath/frost (condensation) bib. You are bound to get a lot of condensation on that. It is meant to prevent condensation on your sleeping bag neck/face area. But if it is your breath condensing and running down into the UC, that frost bib might be a big help. Just adjust it so that you breath right into it as you are sleeping on your side or back.
    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ight=frost+bib

    Let us know if you figure it out!
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 02-19-2013 at 17:26.
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us....that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
    Romans 8:18,21-22

  6. #6
    Senior Member Banjoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    I'm not Billybob, but I am curious what top insulation, and what clothing you wore while in the hammock.

    I've had some moisture/condensation show up on top of my SB before, but never that much. However, in my case I'm sleeping INSIDE of a synthetic sleeping bag, and I'm pretty sure that any condensation being caused is occurring due to sweat...and that is minimized by the fact that I'm sleeping INSIDE the sleeping bag, so there's very little actual moisture making it out of the bag.

    Did you notice any condensation of any kind on the bug netting? Or on the snakeskins that your tarp was in?
    Top insulation - sleeping bag (20 or 30*F, not sure), used as a tq only zipped up to my knees
    Upper clothing was 4 layers - Columbia brand base layer, poly pro shirt, wool sweater, fleece jacket
    lower clothing was 3 layers - cotton pajama-like pants, fleece pants, cotton sweat pants

    I had the netting zipped down (2qzq mod 4 = awesome!), so no chance for condensation on that. There was, however, condensation on just about everything else (snakeskins, sleeping bag, hammock). I could basically see my breath condense and settle onto things in the moonlight, which was rather interesting to watch.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Banjoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Now sweat occurring with all of that insulation, from maybe being way past warm enough, is always a real possibility. ( a jarbridge under the HH OCG pad/sb is a lot of insulation. Probably close to what kwpapke used to stay warm at minus 27 )
    I don't know how this is possible, not saying that I don't believe you or kwpapke. I was maybe over-warm the first hour or two after laying down at 9:00-ish, but not terrible. After that I went to comfortable, then when it got down to the coldest just before it started to get light out I was almost at the tipping point of getting cold. Granted, I didn't have my tarp down to hold in some heat, but it was a rather calm night with the occasional breeze that would come through.

    I've been thinking about how much the Jarbidge would add to make the HHSS go past the normal 40*-ish range of comfort since the Jarbidge is supposed to be good to about 30*. Since the night we are currently discussing got down to 18*, I am wondering if this is possibly what should be expected from this setup?

  8. #8
    hawghangar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banjoman View Post
    I don't know how this is possible, not saying that I don't believe you or kwpapke. I was maybe over-warm the first hour or two after laying down at 9:00-ish, but not terrible. After that I went to comfortable, then when it got down to the coldest just before it started to get light out I was almost at the tipping point of getting cold. Granted, I didn't have my tarp down to hold in some heat, but it was a rather calm night with the occasional breeze that would come through.

    I've been thinking about how much the Jarbidge would add to make the HHSS go past the normal 40*-ish range of comfort since the Jarbidge is supposed to be good to about 30*. Since the night we are currently discussing got down to 18*, I am wondering if this is possibly what should be expected from this setup?
    I just spent a very comfortable night in my HHSS at 23F... only modification was to place a 40F TQ between OCF pad and UC... used a 15F down sleeping bag with integral insulated air core pad in it. Clothing was just wool socks, upper and lower underlayment, and fleece pullover with fleece stocking cap.

    No condensation in hammock or UC!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Banjoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawghangar View Post
    I just spent a very comfortable night in my HHSS at 23F... only modification was to place a 40F TQ between OCF pad and UC... used a 15F down sleeping bag with integral insulated air core pad in it. Clothing was just wool socks, upper and lower underlayment, and fleece pullover with fleece stocking cap.

    No condensation in hammock or UC!
    I'm glad you made it comfortably. Always nice to get up refreshed in the morning. Also good to hear successful results. I'd say that was quite a bit of additional bottom insulation with the two sleeping bags and air core pad. The air core pad is a vapor barrier, so I wouldn't expect much if any condensation to get below that.

  10. #10
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    I suspect that its a combination of both.

    That is a LOT of insulation, both the under insulation and the personal clothing you wore.

    I have spent a couple of nights out in 20F temps using my HHSS. My underinsulation is the SB, fleece blanket, OCF pad, and undercover in that order.

    Inside the hammock, I have a ICW 15-20 deg bag I sleep inside of, a poncho liner that rides loose to close gaps, and I wear a single wicking baselayer, and a single insulative winter baselayer, along with wool socks and a wool buff on my head.

    I leave the bugnet zipped to keep breezes out, and no overcover at all.

    I think that you likely are producing a good amount of sweat that is evaporating and condensing down in the coldest parts of your underinsulation. In my case, if I do sweat, it's probably trapped inside my sleeping bag, where it eventually gets evaporated in the outer layers.

    Your breath may well be a contributing factor, but at those same temps it's never been a major factor for me. No noticeable condensation on the tarp or bug netting at all.

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