catalytic propane heater in a winter tarp?

[hikingjer]

Turk's Titanium Goat woodstove in a prototype JRB heated hammock hut looks like the hanger's response to a Kifaru Paratipi. I'm waiting for a Sierra Designs (SD) Origami 4 tarp so 2 cots and 2 dogs will fit in when winter/snow car camping. It'd be nice to warm up and dry off when camping after a day of cross country skiiing in wet snow. I thought about installing a Titanium Goat Cylinder or Kifaru wood burning stove in the SD tarp when modified with a chimney jack. But, I'm afraid the dogs would bump into it and burn themselves and soggy fuel wood is a problem around here in the wintertime. I'm also kind of freaked out at the thought of a woodburning stove in a silnylon tarp structure.

So, I'm looking into a Coleman catalytic heater like the BlackCat that runs on the ubiquitous green Coleman propane canisters to heat a battoned down Speer Winter Tarp and SD Origami 4 tarp. Has anyone here ever used a catalytic or other heater in a hammock winter tarp or tarp-tent or even a regular tent? Would a 3000 BTU catalytic heater warm up a Speer Winter Tarp when it's 20 degrees outside? Know of any tricks to improve insulation but maintain ventilation when using a heater in a tarp-tent? Any general impressions or suggestions?

[Take-a-knee]

hikingjer, I have no personal experience but the guys over at the Kifaru forum say sparks landing on silnylon isn't a big deal, it just burns a pinhole in the fabric, this is sealed with a dab of silicone. Of course you want to prevent this as much as possible with a spark arrestor.

If you are going to be car camping you might try just making your own woodstove out of sheet metal. I've seen plans for trapper cabin stoves on the net made from galvanized sheeting, just copy the Ti Goat design and make it two feet long and the 3" pipe sections will fit inside. It won't last nearly as long as the Ti or SS stoves if you used it alot.

I would personally be afraid of a catalytic heater and CO. A woodstove creates a draft that pulls fresh air into a structure, the propane heater doesn't.

[KMACK]

A friend of mine used the Coleman catalytic heater in his pop-up camper and complained of condensation issues. I dont know if he had the camper zipped up tight or what the weather conditions were, I just remember him complaining about it.

[Mustardman]

The idea of a catalytic heater is that it doesn't have the carbon monoxide worry of some other heaters.

However, they carry a serious risk of oxygen depletion instead, which is obviously just as bad. I've used them inside a tent, but always with the tent vented, and only while I was awake. I would never go to sleep with one turned on.



http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/FOIA/FOIA05/os/CO03.pdf

[Take-a-knee]

The idea of a catalytic heater is that it doesn't have the carbon monoxide worry of some other heaters.

However, they carry a serious risk of oxygen depletion instead, which is obviously just as bad. I've used them inside a tent, but always with the tent vented, and only while I was awake. I would never go to sleep with one turned on.



http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/FOIA/FOIA05/os/CO03.pdf

That is the nice thing about a woodstove, it turns itself off, those sheetmetal stoves rather quickly.

[SuperTramp]

i have the Sportcat and i wouldn't waste the energy to bring it anywhere!a couple candles would do a better job in my opinion.i slept in my minivan early winter while out exploring some logging roads and brought it in the mini-van and i would hardly have known it was on if it wasn't warm to the touch-i was gonna sell it as soon as i got home but couldn't do that to anybody.that said the Blackcat is a better heater but being in a tarp i can't see it being that good-just my opinion

[MacEntyre]

I've used a Mr. Heater Portable Buddy aboard small vessels, about the same volume as a large tent. They have an automatic shutoff should they tip over, and the new "indoor safe" heaters have a CO detector. My concerns were flammable bedding that might fall onto the heater, and CO. I don't trust CO shut-offs.

Condensation is a huge issue for a somewhat air-tight or enclosed space. Combustion creates a lot of water vapor. Our hatches used to freeze shut from the combination of a couple of hours of combustion, followed by six hours of people breathing.

[hikingjer]

hikingjer, I have no personal experience but the guys over at the Kifaru forum say sparks landing on silnylon isn't a big deal, it just burns a pinhole in the fabric, this is sealed with a dab of silicone. Of course you want to prevent this as much as possible with a spark arrestor.

If you are going to be car camping you might try just making your own woodstove out of sheet metal. I've seen plans for trapper cabin stoves on the net made from galvanized sheeting, just copy the Ti Goat design and make it two feet long and the 3" pipe sections will fit inside. It won't last nearly as long as the Ti or SS stoves if you used it alot.

As long as it's done right and common sense is exercised, I guess I can get over my phobia of putting a woodstove in a tarp-tent. I think I'll buy a commercial woodstove and not make one. I'm not handy at all and own few tools. Factoring in time, money and new tools, I may just go ahead and buy a Titanium Goat woodstove so I could use it for short backpacking trips too.

But, I think getting a fire going in a woodstove may be a bit of challenge due to soggy, soaking wet wood here in western Washington in wintertime. These woodstoves seem to be best in the Eastern hardwood forests and drier interior West where fuel wood is drier. I remember the firewood back in Virginia and Maryland as dry sometimes in winter. Usually not like that here. However, wood in the Cascades here can be dry in winter if it's up in the air, there's snowpack and it's been cold and not rainy. Where I'd use it, there's mostly true fir firewood which does not burn as well as oak or other hardwoods.

A friend of mine used the Coleman catalytic heater in his pop-up camper and complained of condensation issues.

Condensation is a huge issue for a somewhat air-tight or enclosed space. Combustion creates a lot of water vapor. Our hatches used to freeze shut from the combination of a couple of hours of combustion, followed by six hours of people breathing.

...that said the Blackcat is a better heater but being in a tarp i can't see it being that good-just my opinion

I went ahead and bought a Coleman BlackCat catalytic heater since it was on sale locally. It heats up my 10'x5' bathroom quickly but it does seem to introduce humidity into the air. I didn't think this would happen since it warms up the air. The propane canister sweated and the bathroom feels a bit humid. Since this is an unacceptable side effect and I can't return it, it'll be relegated to handwarming and brief periods of operation for quick warmup.

[hikingjer]

FYI, I recently used a Coleman BlackCat catalytic heater while snow camping near the car on the ground in a Black Diamond Betamid tarp-tent.

It worked well and did not seem to add much condensation inside of the Betamid. The Betamid collects a lot of condensation anyway. However, I did have a lot of ventilation under the door and put the heater near the door. The heater was also only on for an hour or so. It heated up the front end of the Betamid a bit and made it a little more comfortable, but not warm. Good for warming up hands and face. It was about 28 degrees F at most when I went to bed.

I don't know how well it'd work in a Speer Winter Tarp since it's more open than a Betamid (?).

[guySmiley]

Wow. That does NOT look comfortable. At all.