Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 57
  1. #11
    Rat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bertram, Texas
    Hammock
    DIY 126 x 60 Tablecloth
    Tarp
    JRB 10 x 11
    Insulation
    MMG IX Universal
    Suspension
    Whoopie
    Posts
    1,100
    Images
    22
    Here is the Bowline Vs. Sheetbend Video.
    I don't have a good animation or video for the slipped buntline so I will post one of those as well.

    "I aim to misbehave." - Capt. Mal Reynolds
    Mind of a Rat Youtube Channel

  2. #12
    in it for the naps oldgringo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Checotah, Oklahoma
    Hammock
    Varies
    Tarp
    GargoyleGear Ogee
    Insulation
    UQ-varies w/season
    Suspension
    onrope buckle
    Posts
    5,982
    Win. .............
    Dave

    http://www.uark.edu/misc/xtimber/rna/pattonsbluff.html

    It has always been my private conviction that any man who pits his intelligence against a fish and loses has it coming.
    John Steinbeck

  3. #13
    Member wideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Hammock
    No hammock. Yet!
    Posts
    56
    Actually Rat, I hate to be contrarian but there is a small flaw in your arguement. In your initial video you start with your bowline tied improperly. The Tail should end inside the loop. It actually does affect the ssecurity of the knot and in fact when left outside it actually allows the bowline to invert as you warn.

    You can see this in the photo from grog ( but you'd find the same in Ashley or any other source)

    Then if you imagine cutting your bowline as shown ( Please excuse the crude photoshop) You'll see that the structure of the Sheet Bend and Bowline, forward and backward, up and down, frontside and backside, is identical.

    Truly the only difference is one is tied in a single piece of line to form a loop, the the is tied to join two pieces together, especially of different diameter. You can tie a bowline just as you do in your demonstration of the sheetbend, making a bight first and then looping around the other end except when tying a bowline you are usually working with only one end and the standing end is fixed or unreasonably long, but if both ends are free you could follow the exact same mechanics

  4. #14
    Rat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bertram, Texas
    Hammock
    DIY 126 x 60 Tablecloth
    Tarp
    JRB 10 x 11
    Insulation
    MMG IX Universal
    Suspension
    Whoopie
    Posts
    1,100
    Images
    22
    That is a very good illustration; but it shows two ropes joined at the end.

    The Bowline I tie is the left handed variant, also known as the Horse Knot; presumably tied this way to keep the tag end from rubbing against the horses neck. However, I also know that several countries naval service teaches this variant as it is considered, by them, to be superior. I can't speak to the superiority but it is easier to tie up the sailors way, for me, with the tag on the outside; and if Denmark thinks it's good enough then I will use it this way. It's not wrong, just a variant and a recognized variant at that (ABOK # 1034 1/2). I have neither see nor heard it reported that a Left Handed Bowline capsized or inverted as I show the Sheetbend doing. If you have a source for this I would very much like to read it.

    My point is this: If you tie up a loop in the end of a rope using a bight and the Sheetbend Join you create a slip loop that could cause very serious damage. The Bowline will not create a slip loop in this manner.

    I guess, if you tie a Bowline and then cut the loop you have a Sheetbend Join; but you can not tie a sheetbend to form a loop at the end of a rope with out the loop being able to slip closed.

    The Bowline will not form a slip loop; that is why it is the preferred rescue knot. It may spill if not backed up and the loop will come apart, but it will not cinch closed.

    The Bowline has a standing end and a bitter end
    The Sheetbend has two standing ends and two bitter ends
    The Bowline has three load bearing ends
    The Sheetbend has two load bearing ends

    Cutting the loop of a Bowline to create a Sheetbend does not mean they are the same; if that were true then a Reef Knot would be the same as a Cow Hitch as the Cow Hitch is just half of a capsized Reef Knot!

    They are not the same knot.

    This is what got me started on this years ago and why I teach it now; telling people that the Sheetbend and Bowline are the same may cause serious harm. When someone believes this, and they use the Sheetbend to form a loop instead of the Bowline, and end up getting hurt, it will not be because I gave them bad information.

    Believe what you like, but for your sake, please don't use, or teach, people to tie a loop in the end of a rope with a Sheetbend; it's the worst kind of dangerous, the unexpected kind.
    "I aim to misbehave." - Capt. Mal Reynolds
    Mind of a Rat Youtube Channel

  5. #15
    MAD777's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    South Florida
    Hammock
    DIY, WBBB & Switchback
    Tarp
    HG cuben,OES Spinn
    Insulation
    DIY down 3/4 UQ/TQ
    Suspension
    Dynaglide & Dutch
    Posts
    8,571
    Images
    39

    Essential Outdoor Knots, according to Rat!

    Thanks for posting this knot thread, Rat. I love all the Ditch bling and the like, but we should know our knots, too.

    It's the same thing as knowing how to use a map & compass even though we have a GPS, or knowing how to start a wood fire even though we have a canister stove.
    Mike
    "Life is a Project!"

  6. #16
    Member wideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Hammock
    No hammock. Yet!
    Posts
    56
    Quote Originally Posted by Rat View Post
    That is a very good illustration; but it shows two ropes joined at the end.
    It shows a Bowline straight from Grog's page with a small section photo shopped out for demonstration purposes. If you imagine the lower loop stretched out ( and in a different diameter) It is a sheetbend.


    As I said, you could never practically tie a bowline using the same movements and mechanics as the sheet bend because normally if you're tying a bowling the standing end is fixed already or is 100' long and ( And who wants to feed all that through a knot?)

    When I teach I teach a bowline as a knot used to put a non-constricting fixed loop in a single piece of rope. And I always teach it with a backup. ( or more commonly I teach a figure 8 because it maintains more strength and doesn't need a backup, although it will be a bear to untie when weighted. but if I'm teaching a rescue scenario, I'm much more concerned with the right now. I'll cut the rope later. )

    When I teach a Sheet bend I teach it as a superior method of joining two ropes together , over the Square knot, especially in slippery ropes, small diameter cordage and ropes of different diameters.

    But the fact remains if you tie both properly and cut free all four ends to leave just a lump with four fuzzy ends, the actual knot that will be left behind is identical.

  7. #17
    Rat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bertram, Texas
    Hammock
    DIY 126 x 60 Tablecloth
    Tarp
    JRB 10 x 11
    Insulation
    MMG IX Universal
    Suspension
    Whoopie
    Posts
    1,100
    Images
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by wideguy View Post
    But the fact remains if you tie both properly and cut free all four ends to leave just a lump with four fuzzy ends, the actual knot that will be left behind is identical.
    If you cut the loop, it is no longer a Bowline; a Bowline is a loop knot!

    But, if you say they are the same, tie a loop in the end of a rope using a Sheetbend and load it like you would a Bowline and see if it fails; on video.
    Prove me wrong that you can use a Sheetbend instead of a Bowline to form a loop in the end, or mid-span for that matter, of a rope without it failing.

    Basic knot work is knowing which knot for which work and a Sheetbend cannot replace a Bowline...
    "I aim to misbehave." - Capt. Mal Reynolds
    Mind of a Rat Youtube Channel

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Hatfield, MA
    Hammock
    DIY 1.1 single-layer
    Tarp
    SOL Escape Bivvy &
    Insulation
    DIY JCP underquilt
    Suspension
    DIY Whoopie slings
    Posts
    468
    Images
    68
    An excellent resource! Thanks for sharing!

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Hammock
    WBBB 1.1 dbl
    Tarp
    SuperFly
    Insulation
    WL TQ and UQ
    Suspension
    straps & whoopies
    Posts
    61
    I thought this was a great thread. A good break down of the types of knots and when to use them.

  10. #20
    Brady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Hammock
    WBBB XLC Lefty
    Tarp
    WB Camo Superfly
    Insulation
    Leighlo/JRB
    Suspension
    UCRs
    Posts
    273
    Great thread. Thanks for the info.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •