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  1. #11
    Jcavenagh's Avatar
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    I've never tried any Kammock products. If you like them, that's what is important. Obviously, there are many who like the Kammock. Otherwise, they would go out of business.

    There are several thousand members on this board, several hundred of which are fairly regular contributors. Among those, a few hundred try a lot of different gear just for the fun of trying it. A bunch more (like me) have tried several different things so we could find the set up we like best. I know many folks here look for new features and then chew the fat about pros and cons. Some manufacturers are participating members here, too. So there is a bias toward them (no pun intended).

    I do know that HH marketed the water catch system, but without the bottle attachment feature. They also marketed the stability that weight at the corners provides as well as the fact you could drink the H2O.

    It seems to me that Kammock either has not been abundantly agressive with their innovations or they have not marketed the members of this forum very hard.
    The road to success is always under construction.
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  2. #12
    dakotaross's Avatar
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    Oct 2006
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    filter

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolloff View Post
    Drinking tarp runoff?

    Pass.

    Wonders it never caught on
    I believe it was also a method of keeping the tarp taut. Actually, seems like a more decent idea now with the Sawyer squeeze filter, no?
    "If I weren't so weird, I wouldn't be so normal" -- scope

  3. #13
    WillieCash's Avatar
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    Mar 2012
    Location
    Foothill Ranch, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr View Post
    Everything they sell is too heavy for a backpacking hammock in my opinion. The hammock alone is 24 oz., then they use carabiners which aren't strong enough to support a human:

    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ad.php?t=73575

    Nothing original about their 12 oz python straps, either, from what I can tell: ENO Slap Straps or Atlas Straps with a new label on them. They should at least consider offering a lighter suspension like whoopies, but they don't.

    And the Bear Grylls Glyder tarp is 25 oz. as well, made from Cordura. I'm sure their Dragonfly insect net will also weigh a lot (I see a zipper in the pics). You're looking at a 4lb. tarp/hammock setup and you haven't even got bug protection.

    The whole setup sounds like a car-camping setup to me - which is fine if that's what you want. They just don't seem to be marketing or designing their products to appeal to HF members - they're trying to go for the ENO crowd. It's a noob setup, basically.
    I guess it all comes down to what your priorities are in terms of what you are trying to accomplish.

    While I am currently down to about 250 lbs from 315 from last September, the last two backpacking trips I went on I was MUCH heavier. If I have to choose between carrying a couple extra ounces in fabric and straps to get through the night without worrying about it, to me it was worth it. I know most backpackers like the challenge of reducing weight as much as humanly possible. I guess I may be the exception in that I'm not to concerned about if my pack weighs an extra 3-5 pounds if I can bring along some "luxury" items like fishing gear, whiskey, etc... That's likely the reason I didn't consider the (relative) bump in weight a deterrent. Especially after comparing the fabric to other brands. I can; however, see how it could be for some.

    I have backpacked with the Roo (replaced the stock 'biners) and used the python straps. They worked out fine for me.

    I've seen plenty of setups using whoopies and, while I do think they are fascinating and impressive feats of engineering, I just trust a vendor's ability to make something static more than my ability to tie a knot. Especially when the closest assistance if necessary is a 5 hour hike out if unladen with a pack and in good health. I may be being overly cautious, but it amazes me that some of the UL guys go out with the stuff they do. It's super-impressive. But not for me.

  4. #14
    Senior Member lilricky's Avatar
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    Sep 2010
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    Kissimmee, FL
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    I agree with most of their gear being too heavy for mainstream backpackers, but I will give them one compliment, namely the Python Straps. For years, ENO refused to even consider replacing their nylon straps with polyester ones, telling us that their straps didn't stretch, even with several Hammockforum community members actively emailing them. It took Kammock coming onto the scene for them to realize that they had to listen to their customers or else they would lose them due to competition. Lets hope that same fear will drive all our hammock companies, cottage and mainstream, to innovate and improve.

  5. #15
    Senior Member
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    Just my take, but the word "innovative" gets bandied about far too much in their videos. Kammock is certainly not the only company that gets overhyped by the spin doctors in the marketing department. Just a pet peeve...

  6. #16
    Senior Member Rolloff's Avatar
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    Dec 2010
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    Whoopies are spliced, no knots.

    Knots weaken all cordage. Amsteel when properly spliced is practically like suspending a hammock with an equal diameter braided steel cable. You certainly don't sacrifice strength or safety using UCR or Whoopie Sling suspensions.

    Concerning material or construction that will support 300+ pounds, that is easily done with either DL construction, and/or proper weight Sil or even a Tableclothfactory special, for that matter.

    I would strap any of those to my back, with full confidence, long before I drag a 4 pound Roo into the brush. By keeping weight down on shelter and insulation, I can then actually consider, "luxury" or "comfort" items. Makes all the rest of the kit a lot lighter as well.

    HYOH

    Rolloff
    This place you say your lookin' for
    It might have washed out with the rain
    Might not be there anymore
    Might not be the same

  7. #17

    Join Date
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    I also think they are doing some serious astroturfing to try to build sales for a me too product. That's what happens when one has container loads of stuff to get rid of.
    YMMV

    HYOH

    Free advice worth what you paid for it. ;-)

  8. #18
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillieCash View Post
    I've seen plenty of setups using whoopies and, while I do think they are fascinating and impressive feats of engineering, I just trust a vendor's ability to make something static more than my ability to tie a knot. Especially when the closest assistance if necessary is a 5 hour hike out if unladen with a pack and in good health. I may be being overly cautious, but it amazes me that some of the UL guys go out with the stuff they do. It's super-impressive. But not for me.
    So you don't trust the cottage vendors who sell whoopies (that, by the way, have no knots)? Yet you trust Kammok who sells you carabiners that fail and are woefully inadequate to support human weight? Amazing.

    Not to mention the python straps, which Kammok describes thusly:

    Weight: 12oz (and that's not including the biners at 1.2 oz each)
    Max weight capacity: 500lbs total 250lbs each

    Using Kammok's own numbers, compare that to a complete suspension using 7/64" Amsteel Whoopies from Dutchware:

    Specs: -a pair of Whoopie hooks are 6.8 grams (1000 lb. breaking strength)
    -with whoopie slings and loops is 47 grams (even if you rate the spliced Amsteel at 80% breaking strength it's still 1280 lb. breaking strength)
    Tree Straps - 2 oz. - 1500 lb. breaking strength

    Weight -complete with slings, continuous loops and 4′ hugger is 104 grams (3.7 oz).

    Using Kammok's own calcs here's your Dutch suspension:

    Weight: 3.7 oz
    Max weight capacity: 2000lbs total 1000 lbs each

    So what you don't want is a Whoopie Sling suspension that is vastly more robust, weighs 1/4 of the Kammok suspension, and has 4 times the breaking strength?

    Okay, if you say so. If you were cautious, as you claim to be, I would think you would chuck the Kammok suspension at the earliest opportunity. I think you're buying into the illusion of a more robust suspension, but you are getting seriously short-changed. I think you need to do a little more research, personally.
    Last edited by SilvrSurfr; 06-13-2013 at 20:05.

  9. #19
    Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    When Kammock was first released they did some significant out reach into the HF community. Those threads are archived somewhere. I don't think they were greeted with the enthusiasm they had hoped for. That may explain the relative lack of exposure in the forums. I have never seen or used a Kammock product, but that's largely because the only style is can get out of is HH bottom entry. As such I haven't paid much attention to what they are doing.

    It might be helpful to try and find those archived threads. My google-foo is not up to the task. But I am sure someone could track them down.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

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  10. #20
    Postal's Avatar
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