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  1. #21
    Senior Member sir White Wolf's Avatar
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    Laying in a normal whipped end hammock, you feel and will be pulled to center. (to me)
    in the BlackBird I dont have that problem
    the foot box supports your feet out side the traditional hammock area keeping the lay at a more comfortable angle
    <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/kiltedhiker/ART/?action=view&current=BWPH3.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/kiltedhiker/ART/BWPH3.png" border="0" alt="BWPH"></a> Alchemist : EGO SOLVE et COAGULA, illic pro EGO sum : Welder

  2. #22
    Senior Member sir White Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadtorque View Post
    As far as I read this can be a negative thing which leads to increased pressure on you leg. More specifically a squeeze on your left calf muscle in the BB
    That has to do with the way and angle it is suspended I think.
    Never had that
    <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/kiltedhiker/ART/?action=view&current=BWPH3.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/kiltedhiker/ART/BWPH3.png" border="0" alt="BWPH"></a> Alchemist : EGO SOLVE et COAGULA, illic pro EGO sum : Welder

  3. #23
    Senior Member Mustardman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadtorque View Post
    So we are not really comparing a revolutionary hammock design but just more of the same with very small differences?
    Again, I think this is unfair to Brandon. Calling the Blackbird "more of the same" doesn't give credit to the amount of clever design that went into this thing.

    You're not going to feel the difference in the lay without laying in one, so I suggest you show up to a group hang and try one out, or if you're thinking about buying one, go ahead and buy it.

    Brandon offers a 90 day satisfaction guarantee on his hammocks - as far as I know, NO ONE has taken him up on that offer yet.




    Oh, I thought of another difference in the way the ENO is whipped versus the blackbird. Search these forums and you can find several mentions of "edge flop" in ENO doubles - that is, where the loose edge of the hammock flop around, either laying on you, or flapping in the wind. It gets on some peoples' nerves quite a bit, and isn't a problem for others. The blackbird doesn't have this issue.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Roadtorque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblinrev View Post
    I did not take measurements, but when I saw the blackbird it looked very narrow and sleek, Narrow gathered end hammocks do not generally allow for a wide foot placement, at least from the playing around I did with whipping my own in my basement. I would assume the footbox allows added width without the full added fabric of a wider hammock.
    Now that concept I like and can understand. Thanks again Rev for breaking it down for me. I would like a larger foot area without all the additional fabric of the ENO

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    Again, you're missing the point.
    Exactly why I started this thread. I was trying to figure it out on my own but after months of reading I just couldnt put it together on my own. Thanks for your patience and help

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    That's like saying, HH + spreader bars + cat cut edges = Bear Mountain Bridge Hammock, or saying Claytor + zip on over cover = Clark. At the end of the day, ALL hammocks are bits of cloth hanging between two trees. The effectiveness and tradeoffs of the system is what makes a specific hammock fit a specific user's needs.

    The shelf and the net are integrated into the design of the Blackbird in such a way that they fit together as a coherent system which allows one to lay on a deep diagonal, with the feet in the footbox, with tons of room over your head due to the netting and tieout designs, plus a place to store your gear. All the components work together to make the hammock what it is.
    Talk to me some more about this tieout design and what it does for you. As far as I know only the BB and HH have this right? The idea is to pull the "extra" fabric away from you instead of it flopping in your face like on the ENO?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    Remember that the way the blackbird is whipped, plus the addition of the foot box, give you a whole lot of space to put your feet off to the side. This is absolutely NOT the same thing as laying in an ENO or Hennessey Hammock. For that matter, an ENO is whipped in a totally different way than a HH, and the two don't lie the same either.
    How does the wipping alone account for a larger space for your feet?

  5. #25
    Senior Member hangnout's Avatar
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    The ENO doublenest and BB are both long/wide hammocks that can result in a flatter asym lay than shorter/narrower hammocks. If you compare length and width to other hammocks you can see the difference. I think the length/width of these two hammocks probably has more to do with a flatter lay than the whipping method. The ENO doublenest is probably similar in comfort but the real art of the BB is above the base hammock. The BB with the bugnet and extra features is reasonably priced considering it is really a custom job every time. If I were in the market I would seriously consider it.

  6. #26
    Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadtorque View Post
    Talk to me some more about this tieout design and what it does for you. As far as I know only the BB and HH have this right? The idea is to pull the "extra" fabric away from you instead of it flopping in your face like on the ENO?
    The tieouts on the HH have little to do with extra fabric as I have experienced it. What the tieouts do is to define the shape. You can sleep in the HH without the tieouts and I have seen Brandon say the same about the blackbird. But the tieouts on the HH rather natrually settle you into a particular position and particular place. The HH tieouts have more impact on the bug net than the hammock body fabric. They can help align underquilts and such depending on the angle that you use to tie them out. Closer to horizontal tends to keep the sides of an underquilt higher and a steeper angle tends to allow the sides toi sag more. I don't know if the same is true for the BB or not.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

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  7. #27
    as far as the differences it's hard to say, the bb lay's more like a eno than an hh i think, the corners of the hammock are more in the head/foot area, which is how it is on an eno and less like hh.

    the footbox and shelf just allow the shape the bed fabric takes(asym) to be used with symmetric netting, this creates a situation where you can stretch out like you can in an eno, but without the netting causeing any restriction while gaining the storage of the shelf.

    from there comfort is going to be based on the details which you'd have to compare side by side: weight-stretch of hammock fabric in relation to user's weight, width, length, rl length, no seams in the body like an eno, slightly different whip, double layer for pad etc

  8. #28
    Senior Member Roadtorque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    Again, I think this is unfair to Brandon. Calling the Blackbird "more of the same" doesn't give credit to the amount of clever design that went into this thing.
    Well I really dont want to be unfair to him but since you keep bringing it up the fact of the matter as I see it is this. He has either created a unique design uncommon and unshared by all hammock manufacturers and deserves all the credit as an innovator or, he made simple improvements on an already existing great/proven design of a hammock. That is not unfair to him. That is what 99.9% of manufacturers do. Make very small changes to a product that already exist. Not very often do inventors go from a candle to a light bulb, type change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    You're not going to feel the difference in the lay without laying in one
    Probably true, sometimes words just don't exist to describe a night in a hammock!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    so I suggest you show up to a group hang and try one out
    Boy I wish I could. I just live to far away from most of the hangouts to justify going to them. As luck would have it I cant make the one in April in my own state

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    or if you're thinking about buying one, go ahead and buy it.

    Brandon offers a 90 day satisfaction guarantee on his hammocks - as far as I know, NO ONE has taken him up on that offer yet.
    Well I would not mind that but as I said before. I am hoping to learn some new things about the BB before I buy it. Maybe that just isnt going to happen. Like you said. Sometimes you just need to lay in one to know why its so great




    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    Oh, I thought of another difference in the way the ENO is whipped versus the blackbird. Search these forums and you can find several mentions of "edge flop" in ENO doubles - that is, where the loose edge of the hammock flop around, either laying on you, or flapping in the wind. It gets on some peoples' nerves quite a bit, and isn't a problem for others. The blackbird doesn't have this issue.
    Yeah I know what your talking about. The "edge flop" for me is annoying but something I can deal with. However these small differences between the two hammocks such as the tieouts, whipping, and footbox are starting to show the BB as a superior hammock

  9. #29
    Senior Member Rushthezeppelin's Avatar
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    Here soon I will be buying a BB and when I do you are welcome to come give it the personal test. Trust me it makes the difference and you will immediately know why there is so much buz about this hammock. There is also another member in the area who already has one but I'll let him offer if he wants to. BTW you should check out AZ Backpacking Club on meetup.com. They organize ALOT of hikes on there and if you come on one with us hangers you can get to try other stuff out.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Roadtorque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    as far as the differences it's hard to say,
    Well now I dont feel so bad. Thanks for chiming in. I really dont want to bring disrespect to you or your hammock/company. I think your whole idea is great. Sorry if I have come across otherwise. As I said earlier, I would actually hope this turns into a positive thread where confused readers like me can see the Warbonnet BB is a one-of-a-kind and is the way to go for comfort and enjoyment. If the BB had been out when I bought my ENO I surely would have got the BB instead. Your hammock is the same price as an ENO double with a net but yours is so much cooler.
    I just feel like there are plenty of others out there like me. I had no experience with hammocks so I bought an ENO double to test the water. It was cheap, seemed straight forward and was sold at my local sporting goods store. Now that I am in the market for a nicer hammock, but still with the limited knowledge of the ENO I'm just scoping out the next step up. Your product seems to be that next step that will keep a beginner hanger happy clear through becoming a old timer. So yes if I could do it again (pay attention newbies) I would have just bought your hammock to begin with
    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    the bb lay's more like a eno than an hh i think, the corners of the hammock are more in the head/foot area, which is how it is on an eno and less like hh.

    the footbox and shelf just allow the shape the bed fabric takes(asym) to be used with symmetric netting, this creates a situation where you can stretch out like you can in an eno, but without the netting causeing any restriction while gaining the storage of the shelf.

    from there comfort is going to be based on the details which you'd have to compare side by side: weight-stretch of hammock fabric in relation to user's weight, width, length, rl length, no seams in the body like an eno, slightly different whip, double layer for pad etc
    But I might add, based off users of you hammock on this forum, you cant go wrong by purchasing a Warbonnet BB. It is sounding to me that it would be safe to say a person who finds a ENO double comfortable will likewise find the BB comfortable, but you get more for your money with the BB.

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