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  1. #11
    Senior Member Big D's Avatar
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    Hey RT. I have never been in an Eno dbl, but I have read that you can get pretty flat! The biggest difference I have felt, comming from a HH Exp UL, is a flatter lay and less shoulder squeeze.

    I never had a problem with the birth, but I enjoy being able to reach out and do whatever. The Eno may be perfect for you, but this is all about picking and choosing (customizing) your setup.

    For many simple is better, I enjoy having a few extra "conveniences". We are all part of the club! If it works for you that's great. Happy hangin'
    "Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." Gen. George S. Patton

  2. #12
    Senior Member Roadtorque's Avatar
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    Is the math correct here

    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalin View Post
    Agreed! It reminds me of a story my art teacher once told me about the Japanese car companies sending artists over to sketch our plants. Well, we send out the nice looking ladies to tour them around the plant hoping they will be distracted, but instead they were dilegently drawing all the machines and designs into their sketchpads! What did they do...they went home and did everything completely differently!

    In the same way, Brandon has a product that accomplishes the same goals as the HH, but in a different way. And, the added benifit of a zipper on the bugnet and shelf are very creative. Not to mention the sexy factor! IMO, the hype is well worth it...
    so HH -shelf + 2questions mod=BB?
    or ENO double+ zip on bug net + shelf= BB?
    This is kind of my point if my math is right. Accessories aside the BB is the same hammock (the part you lay on) as a Eno double and HH?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Roadtorque's Avatar
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    dont want to go without

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D View Post
    Hey RT. I have never been in an Eno dbl, but I have read that you can get pretty flat! The biggest difference I have felt, comming from a HH Exp UL, is a flatter lay and less shoulder squeeze.

    I never had a problem with the birth, but I enjoy being able to reach out and do whatever. The Eno may be perfect for you, but this is all about picking and choosing (customizing) your setup.

    For many simple is better, I enjoy having a few extra "conveniences". We are all part of the club! If it works for you that's great. Happy hangin'
    Its not that the ENO is my ideal hammock. Yes it works for me. I just feel like I'm spying on the jones's and think they might have something better. I dont want to miss out on cool gear but I likewise dont need two of the same thing

  4. #14
    Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    If I understand correctly it would be an error to refer to the foot box as an "accessory". From my undestanding, never having laid in one, is that ti makes a huge difference in the positions you can easily lie in. It is a rather radical departure from normal gathered end hammocks as I understand it.

    Perhaps to use the automotive analogy it is less a case of the difference between heated seats or not and more the case of front wheel drive verus rear wheel drive. They are indeed both cars, but there is a very radical design difference which is not attributable to "accessories".
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Mustardman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadtorque View Post
    This is where I get lost. Seems like you are saying take the "extra accessories" away from the BB its the same as the ENO. Then later you talk about the cleverness of the design which sets it apart from other hammocks. Are you referring again to the accessories or the actual hammock? My problem is accessories are not going to affect the flatness and comfy factor of the hammock. So then, what makes the BB more comfy than the ENO?
    The blackbird is whipped differently from the ENO, so even without the extra accessories, it's going to lay differently from the ENO as well.

    However, saying "take the accessories away from the blackbird" is like saying "take the bugnet and bottom entry away from a HH" Of course if you take away all the identifying characteristics of a hammock, it's not going to be any different from anything else.


    You can compare the BB against two types of hammocks - super simple, featureless hammocks like the ENO, in which case the comparison becomes one of features and whipping style, which leads to a small difference in the way it lays. OR, you can compare the BB against other netted hammocks, in which case the difference and lay and the features, PLUS the roominess under the bugnet.

  6. #16
    Senior Member sir White Wolf's Avatar
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    I think we need some one who has both the Hammock's in question to get an Idea of whats what
    Where is Cannibal ??
    <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/kiltedhiker/ART/?action=view&current=BWPH3.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/kiltedhiker/ART/BWPH3.png" border="0" alt="BWPH"></a> Alchemist : EGO SOLVE et COAGULA, illic pro EGO sum : Welder

  7. #17
    Senior Member Roadtorque's Avatar
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    Now we are on to something

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramblinrev View Post
    If I understand correctly it would be an error to refer to the foot box as an "accessory". From my undestanding, never having laid in one, is that ti makes a huge difference in the positions you can easily lie in. It is a rather radical departure from normal gathered end hammocks as I understand it.

    Perhaps to use the automotive analogy it is less a case of the difference between heated seats or not and more the case of front wheel drive verus rear wheel drive. They are indeed both cars, but there is a very radical design difference which is not attributable to "accessories".
    Thanks Rev, that is a key difference. Now if someone can explain it to me in other terms than its were you put your feet so you can lay flatter.
    Here are some questions about the foot box
    1. How does it allow for a flatter lay?
    2. I dont have a footbox in my ENO but I still lay very flat, whats the difference
    3. Is the footbox just extra (loose fabric like and eno has due to its large size) fabric were you wedge your feet or is it a piece that has been sewn in?

  8. #18
    Ramblinrev's Avatar
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    I did not take measurements, but when I saw the blackbird it looked very narrow and sleek, Narrow gathered end hammocks do not generally allow for a wide foot placement, at least from the playing around I did with whipping my own in my basement. I would assume the footbox allows added width without the full added fabric of a wider hammock.
    I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.

    "Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Mustardman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadtorque View Post
    so HH -shelf + 2questions mod=BB?
    or ENO double+ zip on bug net + shelf= BB?
    This is kind of my point if my math is right. Accessories aside the BB is the same hammock (the part you lay on) as a Eno double and HH?
    Again, you're missing the point. That's like saying, HH + spreader bars + cat cut edges = Bear Mountain Bridge Hammock, or saying Claytor + zip on over cover = Clark. At the end of the day, ALL hammocks are bits of cloth hanging between two trees. The effectiveness and tradeoffs of the system is what makes a specific hammock fit a specific user's needs.

    The shelf and the net are integrated into the design of the Blackbird in such a way that they fit together as a coherent system which allows one to lay on a deep diagonal, with the feet in the footbox, with tons of room over your head due to the netting and tieout designs, plus a place to store your gear. All the components work together to make the hammock what it is.

    Remember that the way the blackbird is whipped, plus the addition of the foot box, give you a whole lot of space to put your feet off to the side. This is absolutely NOT the same thing as laying in an ENO or Hennessey Hammock. For that matter, an ENO is whipped in a totally different way than a HH, and the two don't lie the same either.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Roadtorque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    The blackbird is whipped differently from the ENO, so even without the extra accessories, it's going to lay differently from the ENO as well.
    Good point, I have never laid in a whipped end hammock like the BB. As far as I read this can be a negative thing which leads to increased pressure on you leg. More specifically a squeeze on your left calf muscle in the BB

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    However, saying "take the accessories away from the blackbird" is like saying "take the bugnet and bottom entry away from a HH" Of course if you take away all the identifying characteristics of a hammock, it's not going to be any different from anything else.
    So we are not really comparing a revolutionary hammock design but just more of the same with very small differences?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mustardman View Post
    You can compare the BB against two types of hammocks - super simple, featureless hammocks like the ENO, in which case the comparison becomes one of features and whipping style, which leads to a small difference in the way it lays. OR, you can compare the BB against other netted hammocks, in which case the difference and lay and the features, PLUS the roominess under the bugnet.
    Yes yes yes, this is what I'm talking about. Compare the lay of the BB to other hammocks and explain the "WHY" it lays better than this hammock or that hammock. Never mind the features, those are obvious and all I hear anyone talk about.

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